do I play this hand quietly because it's NL .25/50??

strategem · #1 10-09-2003, 01:52 AM

Stars NL .25/50 with $50 buy in. I have $77 in lp, dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. 2 limpers in front of me, I raise to $4, folded to player X (UTG+1) who calls, all fold. Player X ($28 from $50 in about 30 minutes) is really bad - has been calling all the way to the river and losing badly - pockets not even related to the board.

Flop 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]..... X checks, I bet $3.50, X calls
Turn 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]..... X checks, I bet $7, X calls

At this point I figure if he had i.e. A4, he would raise me - is this a mistaken notion?

River is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

(4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

X checks, I check and he shows me A2 to win the pot.

My question is twofold - first any comment and criticism of my play would be appreciated. Second ...in situations like this when you are almost certain that your opponent is holding an A and is simply trying to draw out on you, do you bet hard or do you avoid the $7 turn bet because it is so damn likely that the A is coming on the river? Maybe I am weakened by the surreal number of times that my KK has been beaten by a ragged A in the past week or two... but anyway, when you are facing a player you know is not very good, how do you approach this hand? Should I have bet $2 all the way?

Max Weinberg · #2 10-09-2003, 02:04 AM

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because it is so damn likely that the A is coming on the river?

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This is the bad-beated-ness talking. A three-outer is not likely to be hitting on the river.

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but anyway, when you are facing a player you know is not very good, how do you approach this hand? Should I have bet $2 all the way?

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No, in fact you should've been betting more. You kept betting half the pot, you should've been at least betting the pot on the flop and turn. If you get raised at either point, evaluate what he's most likely to hold and go from there. I'm not sure what you're scared of here exactly. Do you think he's slowplaying a four? You kept betting half the pot. If you think your kings are best, make him pay to draw out on you.

strategem · #3 10-09-2003, 02:55 AM

dammit....

well I guess no further replies to this post are going to be forthcoming and perhaps they shouldn't be. I hate the whining about bad beats that I see and I seem to have yielded to the temptation myself. I just can't begin to explain to you what the past 10 days have been like - I have worked hard to play my plan and it has been going fairly well, and in these last 10 days I have given back nearly all my winnings. The reason is this indescribable series of beats I am taking at the hands of the loose players at the low buy-in NL tables. I have just started to wonder if my aggression when I have the best hand is a mistake when you KNOW that you are up against MULTIPLE players who will be attempting to draw out on you NO MATTER WHAT YOU BET. It's sapping my resolve a bit - now when I get HU with i.e. AA and make a decent bet and get called, I think - "This guy is going to call me all the way and suck out on me". So I bet even harder because it's 'the right thing to do' and what happens? He sucks out the most fantastic cards on the turn and riv to beat me.

Well, I wanted to be known around here as a cut above the average whiny newbie, but I guess I blew it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] What's next? Well, I know that in trading when you think you are going to lose, you almost inevitably WILL lose. I guess I need to just play my way through this bad streak.

Max, thanks for telling it like it is.

stripsqueez · #4 10-09-2003, 03:16 AM

i loved your second post

i firmly agree that bad beat stories are for sooks/nancys/blouses (Australian slang for people lacking resolve) - get tough or get out - and if your getting out - save your whining till your gone - i reckon

DocHollyday · #5 10-09-2003, 04:28 AM

hey buddy,

Keep cool, I am also going through this at the moment. I've been playing online poker for a bit more than half a year. I lost 3 grands in the first 5 months, than finally started reading some books and I won it all back in a week, just to send it down again in a couple of weeks on such a bad luck streak like you have.

I actually don't have any good advice for you, but I make a little break now until I have enough confidence to play again. The problem is, that when you get drawed out so much. you lose your trust in your cards (this is what happened to me), and then you cannot win. So keep cool a little while until you're really in mood for play some poker. Luck will come back as the sun will rise every day.

Guy McSucker · #6 10-09-2003, 04:33 AM

Of course you should bet more on flop and turn in that hand. And god bless him for checking to you when he finally hits his miracle.

I am so glad you posted what you did because it awoke my rational thoughts again. I was about to post "Of course it is not that likely that an ace is coming on the river" etc etc... which is exactly the thought I needed to have: I'm suffering a little string of beats and it has been getting to my thought processes.

So with a bit of luck we are both back on track now. Keep playing hard!

Side topic: how many beats can you take before you lose it? Ten cracked sets in a row did it for me yesterday... and I can't even remember the last time I was "lucky" enough to flop ten sets in one day.

Guy.

nicky g · #7 10-09-2003, 06:25 AM

"Ten cracked sets in a row "

OUCH!!! In no limit? And I thought my beats were bad. I'd be up in a tower with a rifle by the 5th one.

Guy McSucker · #8 10-09-2003, 09:33 AM

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"Ten cracked sets in a row "

OUCH!!! In no limit? And I thought my beats were bad. I'd be up in a tower with a rifle by the 5th one.

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It's twelve now [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

That's why I've moved down to Party's $25 game. This has only cost me $300. And as I began typing this, the nice FedEx man knocked on the door with a juicy cheque from last month, when sets held up. I am much more level headed now!

Guy.

Max Weinberg · #9 10-09-2003, 05:47 AM

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Well, I know that in trading when you think you are going to lose, you almost inevitably WILL lose. I guess I need to just play my way through this bad streak.

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I think this shows that you know more than the "average whiny newbie" already. Good luck with everything.

tsarrast · #10 10-09-2003, 10:49 AM

you played the hand fairly well, some mistakes though.. here are some comments:

First, with the 4$ preflop raise, that puts 8$ in the pot about when the flop hits 244. now, he has A2, when he checks to you, you bet only 3.50$, that looks like an overcard bet if i've ever seen one (it's less then half the pot)... so he calls you. That's not necessarily bad, in this situation you actually do want him to call you... however you could have bet more on the flop trying to take it down.

HOWEVER, assuming we stick with your play on the flop, you definitely made a mistake on teh turn, with 15$ in the pot now, I would have bet at least the size of the pot on the turn, trying to take it down... you bet half the pot again, a rather weak bet... if you play like a pansy, you will get drawn out on, remember that.

AGGRESSIVE PLAY