QQ on Turn, Laydown, Raise or Call?

Augster · #1 09-30-2005, 08:51 PM

Paradise .25/.50. Most all of the table are donks that play any 2 suited and raise it up when there are two suited on the flop.

Villian is 65/0 over about 80 hands. Typical player playing too many hands and going too far with them. He had cracked KK against me with nothing catching a runner, runner two-pair a few orbits ago.

What do I do on the flop/turn? Standard?

Thanks for any help.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero????

teajay · #2 09-30-2005, 09:05 PM

You posted VPIP and PFR, but ommited AF. If this player is agressive, I'm inclined to call down. If he's passive, I'll fold the turn. Even then, for some reason I want to call down, but that's probably not good.

tyler_cracker · #3 09-30-2005, 09:06 PM

I can fold the turn against a passive opponent on this fairly uncoordinated board. Calling down getting 7:2 is no good.

Preflop and flop are standard. What else are you gonna do?

Augster · #4 09-30-2005, 09:14 PM

I don't recall his AF # as I don't have PT right now.

I was hoping this line was okay, because I'd never seen him do anything tricky. Without 2 to the flush on the board, I assumed he had at least the K if not 2-pair with K3s and K2s well within his range of holdings.

Afterward I didn't like not re-raising the flop. I mean, he could have been pushing a backdoor flush for all I knew, but a limp-call-re-raise on that board kind of threw me.

I just hate folding with only one overcard to my QQ, and it's not the ace, against one opponent.

Any justification for calling down or re-raising the flop?

Thanks guys.

tyler_cracker · #5 09-30-2005, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Any justification for calling down or re-raising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

The key here is your read on villain as being passive.

3-betting the flop is spewing. A better hand is folding, like, never, and even a passive player will 4-bet if you're crushed (22/33).

But more often, your 3-bet will scare the villain, who will passively call down with his K, causing you to put in some big bets while you're still behind and still lose.

The pot is too small to call down against a passive villain. Against a LAG, i'd lean toward calling down.

Mathieu · #6 09-30-2005, 10:22 PM

Villain does not seem to be aggressive (0% pfr in 80 hands). If he was aggressive enough to try to protect a mid pocket pair in this spot, he would have probably open raised preflop from mid position.

Provided that villain is passive, I would fold the flop. I can't think of any hand that a passive player would raise here that doesn't beat you.

Mathieu · #7 09-30-2005, 10:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I just hate folding with only one overcard to my QQ, and it's not the ace, against one opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are against only one opponent on the turn, but when your opponent raised you, there were still 2 opponents left to act. This makes it less likely that he is getting out of line.

As others pointed out, I think the key to this hand is how aggressive villain is. If he could raise the flop with A2 or A3 or 55 to try to protect his hand, then you have to call down. If he would normally just peel with these holdings then folding is better.

Augster · #8 09-30-2005, 10:57 PM

Thanks guys.

Yeah, I actually did fold in the hand after his turn bet, but felt like [censored] doing it.

I felt he had the K for all the reason's you guys have stated. Mainly because I had never seen him raise ANYONE before let alone with 2 players behind him on the flop.

Maybe I'm learning. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

#9 10-01-2005, 02:21 AM

I think its a nice laydown, but its still one i wouldnt have made.

livinitup0 · #10 10-01-2005, 12:39 PM

you are behind on the flop most of the time and drawing very very short. Why get married to 2nd pair? I know the Biotches are pretty but this shoudlnt have went past the flop. I even thought about calling the raise and c/f unimproved. But then again, improve on what? The only cards you could be happy to see are the Q and K as its more unlikely he doesnt have another K.
Easy fold.