A ton of outs and players, raise turn for value?

[teajay]

I've got no reads on anyone at the table, second orbit and haven't seen anything exciting. A few more people seeing this flop than average though.

I'm figuring that my J outs are mostly clean, the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] slightly dirty. So, 3.5 outs for the straight. Maybe half an out for the 10? and the 9 outs for a flush. So about 13 outs. If there were a couple callers behind me already I would certainly raise this and trap them all for one more bet, but in this case should I call and pad this pot?

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero ??

[gharp]

With 13 outs (I think 12 is probably more accurate, but whatever) you'd need 3 other people to come along in order for a raise to be correct, and that's a very thin equity edge you'd be pushing. I'd rather have 4+, so I think you're better off just calling here.

This also might let you get a raise in on the river when you hit, which could be worth more anyway.

Yes just call, while you have a big draw I think you only have like maybe 30% equity (too lazy to do the math). You don't want to lose anyone.

[Roadstar]

I vote for calling on the turn - you don't want to lose those behind you.

Can I ask why you called the flop?!? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
This also might let you get a raise in on the river when you hit, which could be worth more anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

[teajay]

[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask why you called the flop?!? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

An overcard, two backdoor draws and getting almost 11:1 w/ only two left to act. Maybe a little loose, but I felt it was correct (or close)

[CourtJester]

Simple equity is calculated by mulitplying your outs (after properly discounted) by 4 on the flop, and by 2 on the turn. So right now you have about 26% equity, so u need at LEAST 3 players coming with you for the raise to be good, you would probably want 4 or 5 others though, to make sure you have a good equity edge, so i vote to just call, and raise if you hit, possible even if its J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] as long as no1 donkbets the river.

[POKhER]

Why has no one said "FOLD PREFLOP" or... "Do you call T8s often?... may i have your username?"

So you called the flop, I'd of folded with our one overcard and 3clean outs and BDSD and BDFD. Still fold cause i dont rate BDSD BDFD as outs, Maybe im a fool.

anyhow so we say 1.5 + 1.5 + 3 = 6 so 7:1 and we can call.

Turn:
Flush draw with1 player trapped i'm just calling, raising we may get 3bet and we make others face 2 cold.

River....

[lufbradolly]

fold the flop.

call the turn.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Why has no one said "FOLD PREFLOP" or... "Do you call T8s often?... may i have your username?"

[/ QUOTE ]
(re)read SSH. both tight and loose charts indicate after limpers (at least 2) this is fine. specifically the chart says T9-98s, but T8 is fine. not a major leak.

[ QUOTE ]
i dont rate BDSD BDFD as outs

[/ QUOTE ]

(re)read SSH if you're not counting your backdoors as outs. you're folding too much because you undervalue your hands.