$109s - JJ Hand

[johnnybeef]

Without reads, I will usually call the turn and fold to a river bet.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
I would actually min-raise here. I think it will shut villain down almost always if he does not have the flush and get you a cheap showdown. If he keeps coming at you, you can be very certain that he has the flush and you can get away from the hand with a weaker, but playable stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty much what I was thinking.

[kyro]

I raise the flop to see if I'm behind QQ-AA or AK-Aq.

[microbet]

I would have raised preflop and on the flop, but...

At the turn, unless he was a known tricky player, I would say to myself, "self, he either leads out on the draw or leads out when he hits, but he doesn't lead out when he draws and when he hits" and I'd probably go for one of those calling him down and letting him continue to bluff plays.

[archangel]

[ QUOTE ]
"self, he either leads out on the draw or leads out when he hits, but he doesn't lead out when he draws and when he hits"

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you think that? why would you rule out the semi-bluff followed by a continuation/value bet when the draw hits?

[Bonafone]

[ QUOTE ]
Without reads, I will usually call the turn and fold to a river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this line unless the river bet is ridiculously small.

[ChuckNorris]

I can't understand how you could fail to raise the flop [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
You're very likely to have the best hand, but you are at the same time very vulnerable. By calling you put yourself in a crappy situation on the turn, as there are a lot of scary cards that can come up.

Since the villain is betting again and the flush draw, which is a very likely hand for villain, completed, I doubt that you're ahead on the turn. There aren't many hands that you beat that would reasonably play like this. AQo or AKo with one diamond, the other jacks and nines... Anything else? You do have some odds for your flush draw if villains is on an overpair or a set, but I don't think they're good enough since they can easily already have a bigger flush, or a bigger draw. I think you should fold. I think villain has very rarely something like AT or A8, which you beat, here.

Of course raising is an option which might sometimes make villain fold a better non-flush hand, but that's a lot more variance in terms of chips and I doubt that can be that much more +CEV than folding, if at all.

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
At the turn, unless he was a known tricky player, I would say to myself, "self, he either leads out on the draw or leads out when he hits, but he doesn't lead out when he draws and when he hits" and I'd probably go for one of those calling him down and letting him continue to bluff plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point.. Really got me thinking. I suck at postflop play as I'm just a sit'n'go bot. Do you play your draws like that? I feel like it's too likely for villain to happily check behind on the turn if you don't bet. But at the 109's people probably are more aggressive, and I guess they should bet the turn often after being checked to. And letting them see the river with your nut flush isn't that bad. Fascinating [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Ryendal]

This is really a difficult hand.
I like the nice idea of the min-raise (I never do that)
Else, if you call, the guy should put you an a flush.
And if himself doesn't have the flush, he should check the river.

[microbet]

I wouldn't rule it out. I would just bet against it. That's another reason for just calling him down though at this point because he probably won't try and stack you when he has the nuts.