QQ vs 3 opponents

Duerig · #1 05-25-2005, 11:44 PM

Alright people to respond to this post. This is a pretty standard hand (I think) but I'm sure I misplayed it. Both opponents were ~30% VPIP, were a bit too loose pf but I haven't seen either do anything extremely stupid yet.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

River: (8.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

I have an idea of what I think I should have done, but I'll wait until some people reply. Thoughts?

topspin · #2 05-26-2005, 01:10 AM

The only question here is whether to bet/fold or check/call the river. Bet/fold is the default OOP in these sorts of situations and HU it's standard here, but against 2 callers I really can't see many worse hands calling on this board so I actually like the check/call. Might be overly weak though so I'll at least bump your thread for other comments.

NateDog · #3 05-26-2005, 01:15 AM

I'd c/c one back. I run into these a lot myself, and find MHIG more than I expect.

Firefly · #4 05-26-2005, 01:16 AM

I actually like the way you played it, but the river decision is pretty close. Can you fold to a raise?

More that I think about it, bet/fold the river, anything that raises the river has you beat.

cmwck · #5 05-26-2005, 01:55 AM

If a bet's going in on this river, I'd rather bet/fold than check/call.

Maurader1 · #6 05-26-2005, 02:35 AM

if CO or UTG+1 raised on the flop, do you still bet the turn?

Also I don't understand why there is a preference to bet/fold over check/call. Sure it might get checked through and we lose at most 2BB if our hand is good, but if we fold to the raise, we saying that we are over 90% certain we are beat, and giving up 9BB. Does the EV math over the long run justify the bet/fold line?

Since we are putting in one bet on the river anyways, wouldn't it be best to use that bet to see a showdown instead of trying to extract one more bet from hands that we beat?

kapw7 · #7 05-26-2005, 07:50 AM

Why on earth would you bet this river? Are you the favourite to have the best hand? Not at all. Do you expect any worse hands than yours to call? Not really (a pair of jacks maybe?) Do you expect better hands than yours i.e. pair of aces to fold? No. Does your position suck? Yes.

Losfer · #8 05-26-2005, 08:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If a bet's going in on this river, I'd rather bet/fold than check/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would really appreciate an explination on this. It seems either way you are putting in one more bet, and it seems doubtful that you would get called by a worse hand. I also think you could save a bet if you check and it gets bet and then raised behind you. No?

Duerig · #9 05-26-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can you fold to a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell yes. In fact my thinking was that I should have given up on this hand earlier than I did. I think the river call was pretty bad, and possibly even the the turn bet. I tend to be way too tight though.

davelin · #10 05-26-2005, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you expect any worse hands than yours to call? Not really (a pair of jacks maybe?)

[/ QUOTE ]

A 5, a 2, a T, a J, a lower pocket pair.