One way to improve your game...

[jayrutz2]

I couldn't agree more! I used to be a b/e player at 3/6 live and then I started playing 6/12 occasionally. I get shellacked once, and then I started cashing hands and I think my total 6/12 play has me about B/E.

But I am now a consistently winning 3/6 player, and even when I am getting rivered like a dog, my pre-flop selection and post flop play is really good...and my mistakes are literally few and far between, in fact, last session I counted only one mistake which as missing a turn bet on a made hand...

Question though, when I move up, I feel like I get pushed around postflop more than in the lower limit. My second pairs and overcards looks so much smaller, and I can not read if I am being pushed off a pot or folding hands that are behind...Bernie, have you noticed this when moving up? How do you combat this???

[digdeep]

I think Spamuell makes a good point. I don't doubt that moving up with a set small bankroll may be helpful to your play, but considering that it takes a couple thousand hands sometimes to just get accustomed to a higher level of play, moving up without the bankroll could be a potentially destructive and disheartening experience.

[bernie]

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Consider you could take a shot and lose your whole roll that has taken you however long to build, and it would take as long to build again (maybe even longer if you bonus-whored and can't do that again).

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by taking shots and hoping to get lucky but probably losing and having to start building again.

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This would be going well beyond what im recommending. The idea isn't to take a shot and get hope to get lucky. That's just a bonus if it happpens. It's to learn about beating the current limit even more. It can really help blow the current limit cobwebs out and rejuvinate your game.

Try it with the intent on learning a bit, not winning. Figure you're going to lose. There, that takes care of that possibility. What's left? Non-monetary benefit.

I agree blowing a whole roll and having to start over after all the time put in would suck. Use discretion.

b

[bernie]

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I don't doubt that moving up with a set small bankroll may be helpful to your play, but considering that it takes a couple thousand hands sometimes to just get accustomed to a higher level of play, moving up without the bankroll could be a potentially destructive and disheartening experience

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You may have missed my point. Im not advocating moving up with a lesser roll. Moving up is a different animal altogether. You're not moving up permanently. Just a session or 2 with more than enough bankroll for your current limit. I believe fully that it will improve one's play. It did mine whenever i did it.

I would also recommend online players to cut the # of tables at a time they're playing when trying this. You want to concentrate a bit more on the higher level with fewer distractions to get the full benefit.

b

[Bob T.]

Thanks bernie.

A great idea that I had forgotten about.

I might add, that it just doesn't have to be a higher limit. Why not try nolimit, Omaha, stud, or O/8 or stud/8. I don't play it often, but when a game goes, I think the triple draw lowball on UB is a lot of fun. You can succeed at all those games, just by playing poker, but they stress different concepts and strategies than limit holdem. If you play those games, and learn a new strategy, and then come back to the holdem world, you have a new perspective to apply to the same old game.

[kegstand!]

Interesting notion.....problem for me would be keeping the tilt factor in check. I tried a new level jump not a month ago, only to have my emotions run off with my mind and my money.
Yeah, so I went back to 5/10 and need some sort of profound incouregmnet to step up again. Im gonna try what you suggested and see if that helps.....Thanks for the solid read.

[bernie]

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Question though, when I move up, I feel like I get pushed around postflop more than in the lower limit. My second pairs and overcards looks so much smaller, and I can not read if I am being pushed off a pot or folding hands that are behind...Bernie, have you noticed this when moving up?

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Yep. The more you move up, it tends to get more aggressive. Along with you'll be running into some decent players. Note that not everyone at that limit is decent. Quite the contrary, most just have more money to play the higher limit. Yet they still couldn't beat a small game if they tried. The better players will likely still stand out. Some bad players will still play a little better. If anything, it's because they're afraid of the monetary amount on the limit. Making them think a bit more before coming in with crap and chasing. But once they manage over that hurdle for the blip in their brain, they'll come in.

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How do you combat this???

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This is where watching how others play when you're not directly involved in a hand really helps. This saves many chips in learning how they play. Free information/lessons. This is also a benefit of sitting in on the bigger game. Seeing some concepts not really used in lower limit used. Some players are better, yet so ABC that they're predictable.

Once you get a line on them, don't be afraid to play back at them at times. Eventually, they'll slow down. You may also have to call down more when HU if the player is tricky.

Sometimes, there will be crossover players who play both limits. So you can learn a bit about them on the lower limit.

Basically, it's all experience with your opponents and their tendencies. Also keep closer tabs on how they may percieve you and use it against them. It comes into play a little more when you move up. Dont try and create an image, use the one you have.

Anyone else have any ideas?

b

[bernie]

I agree. It can give a fresher feel to the game.

However, depending on you game strength, i'd recommend a different form of poker than just switching from limit to n/l. It screwed me up a bit when i was starting and switched back and forth. Some concepts would bleed into my limit game. However, once i got a stronger game, this wasn't nearly the problem it was and it was more beneficial to try it.

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[bernie]

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problem for me would be keeping the tilt factor in check. I tried a new level jump not a month ago, only to have my emotions run off with my mind and my money

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If you're aware of this, then you should be able to see some signs when it starts. When the sign hits, stop playing. On any limit. Discipline baby!!!

However, if it is a problem, get it under control before moving up. I wouldn't try it if it was a problem i haven't found a way to control yet. Force yourself to concentrate more if you have to. Explore what puts you on tilt and why it affects you. Then learn to redirect that energy elsewhere into your game.

Remember your reason for trying the higher limit. Winning isn't the main reason. If you're playing well, that will take care of itself anyways. It's kind of a by product. But if you lose, you should still be able to take something away from it that helps your game in some way. Even if it doesn't seem like much.

good luck.

b

[TripleH68]

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Basically, it's all experience with your opponents and their tendencies. Also keep closer tabs on how they may percieve you and use it against them. It comes into play a little more when you move up. Dont try and create an image, use the one you have.

Anyone else have any ideas?

b

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I think you hit the nail on the head.

1) There are fewer players at the higher limits. Many of them have played against eachother before, perhaps numerous times. When you move up at the B&M they see you as fresh blood and will test you.

2) When you move up the better players are reading you. If you show any sign of weakness they will detect it, especially if you do not bring a sufficient roll with you. You may have tells you were not aware of at lower limits.

Good luck all.