JTs flops trips but I fold to a river 3-bet

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Good Mirage 10/20 game. pretty loose, not very aggressive and bakku is sitting to my right.

i'm utg and limp J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], a MP player raises. He coldcalls a lot, but I havent' seen him raise yet, which probably doesn't really mean much. the blinds fold. anyhoo i call and it's heads up.

flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check. He checks.

turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check. He bets. I call.

river: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check. He bets. I raise. He insta-3-bets. I fold.

[ErrantNight]

huh?

i've seen some pretty perceptive laydowns... but this?

i suppose by this line you assume he MUST have 99?

would you have called had he said, just 3-bet you, as opposed to insta-3-bets you? he couldn't have taken a read from, say, the KQo laydown and decided to respond to a play from you as if you were bluffing?

[digdeep]

What hands did you put him on? I think I call this with trips. The way you played this isn't characteristic of a J, and you finally raise a 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the river, he may simply be a little slow and be 3-betting with A9.

[Nate tha' Great]

The whole play of this hand is so strange that I can't see myself folding for one more bet.

Here's another solution: bet the river. If he raises you, you can make a determination as to whether it's best to call down or 3-bet based on action tells. But folding is out of the question unless he turns his cards face up. I know that you take pride in your ability to make tough, situation-based reads, but I don't think you've got enough information to go on here.

[bisonbison]

Chris, I don't like this at all.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
would you have called had he said, just 3-bet you, as opposed to insta-3-bets you? he couldn't have taken a read from, say, the KQo laydown and decided to respond to a play from you as if you were bluffing?

[/ QUOTE ]

differnt table different dude different game

[Harv72b]

If the MP player "doesn't raise much", I think we can safely assume that he's not playing a hand with a jack in it. Even AJs...a lot of people wouldn't raise with that, even first in from MP.

I think it's far more likely that he's got an overpair and has put you on two overcards, which would definitely explain all your check/calling. He thinks you're trying to steal the pot with a raise on the river, or he feels like he's got a read on you & can tell that you're bluffing, or whatever.

Either way, there are only so many hands that can beat you here:
AJ, KJ, QJ, 99, 55, 22, J9, J5, J2.

How many of those hands would you expect someone to raise preflop with? Forget calling the river, I'd have capped it.

[Rubeskies]

If you check/raised the turn and he 3-bet would you have folded there?

[ErrantNight]

alright, i'll put a *dripping sarcasm* note next time when i'm being sarcastic.

so ignoring my comment about the KQo hand, my question still stands.

the only read you provide is an "insta-" prior to the 3-bet... which would seem to imply you've believe he's got you cold. which leaves... from what i can tell, one possible hand that he'd have played that way... 99.

am I wrong? did you put him on something else? and regardless, what criteria did you put on this guy that made this river 3-bet a certainty to have you beat? and were you kicking yourself for playing this so passively?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
If you check/raised the turn and he 3-bet would you have folded there?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. river 3-bets mean so much more than turn 3-bets.