How is this line?

Poker Chief · #1 02-03-2005, 03:43 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP2 folds, Button folds.

River: (8 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Jc Qs (two pair, jacks and eights).
Hero has 3s 8s (three of a kind, eights).
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins 11 BB.

jgorham · #2 02-03-2005, 03:48 PM

You got lucky here that UTG calls at then end of this hand. In my opinion you definitely need to raise this river. Give UTG a chance to call a 2bet (fishy fishy), but you want that extra bet out of the SB at the end in any case. More often than not UTG will fold anyway, and you lose a BB by not raising. The rest of it looks fine to me, although I would be a bit more aggressive if there were 2 of a suit (on the turn).

admiralfluff · #3 02-03-2005, 03:55 PM

I agree. Because there were no draws on the turn, going for overcalls is ok, but on the river, you need to raise. Most of the time UTG calls 1 on the river, he calls 2, but more of the time he does not call at all. Gotta raise.

Poker Chief · #4 02-03-2005, 04:14 PM

These were my thoughts on going for the river overcall.

- My kicker doesn't play, so I am in a lose/tie situation with another 8.

- The A is a scare card for a Q, if I raise, I might not get the sb to call.

-UTG might have an A and raise the river. Unlikely but still a possibility.

I figured the overcall was the best way to maximize my profit while minimizing my loss.

UTG had a JT, I don't know why that wasn't in the results.

jskills · #5 02-03-2005, 04:18 PM

How does hero not raise at any point - especially the river?

Derek in NYC · #6 02-03-2005, 04:39 PM

A bit unconventional, but ok given your kicker and the disconnected quality of the board. For those who asked why no raise, I think this is one of those rare hands where he will win more, and lose less, by not raising.

To see why this is the case, consider, what could the SB be betting? If SB has only a jack, he should fold to the river raise (particularly given that his kicker likely won't play against another jack). So the raise gets you nothing. If SB has an 8, there is a good chance the pot will be chopped, or SB will win it, so again, a raise does no good (and in fact will force out the UTG overcaller). And if SB is on a stone cold bluff, he won't call.

So a raise here is -EV I think. I play it the same as the original poster, although the play seems quite unconventional.