(11) KTo in SB with strait/flush draw after the turn

how did I play this hand?

***** Hand History for Game 3045459420 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:17465299 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Wednesday, November 16, 16:03:43 EDT 2005
Table Table 67239 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: Bold__Ruler ( $590 )
Seat 4: kiri2222 ( $905 )
Seat 5: klavacus42 ( $1170 )
Seat 7: cshawsd ( $900 )
Seat 10: mcdon13 ( $880 )
Seat 6: RedSox24_34 ( $1375 )
Seat 9: Lord_Deimos ( $550 )
Seat 2: Zbeldino ( $885 )
Seat 8: sjdsydemg ( $745 )
Trny:17465299 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Zbeldino [ Tc Kd ]
kiri2222 folds.
klavacus42 folds.
RedSox24_34 folds.
cshawsd folds.
sjdsydemg calls [15].
Lord_Deimos folds.
mcdon13 calls [15].
Zbeldino calls [5].
Bold__Ruler checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 9d, 5c ]
Zbeldino bets [60].
Bold__Ruler folds.
sjdsydemg raises [150].
mcdon13 folds.
Zbeldino calls [90].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]
Zbeldino is all-In [720]
sjdsydemg folds.

[tigerite]

I bet someone will post "fold preflop". Which is obviously nonsense, but.. I wouldn't bet this flop, I would go for a check/call. Your hand is very vulnerable and even if you're ahead now, with the multitude of draws here (straight + flush) it's unlikely you will be by the river. If you bloat the pot too much it will make it harder to control the action on later streets. This is a good hand to snap off a bluff with but not really a good one to be betting out and calling a raise with. That's just my $0.02 though. As for the turn. Well the flush isn't the nut flush draw, and the straight is the inside straight, so I wouldn't be thinking of playing that too strongly if I were you, especially with only one card to come. Also the fact that any diamond on the river will kill your action, and the fact that 3 diamonds are already out there. It's rarely worth it.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I would fold to the raise on the flop.

At the flop, you have a 50% chance to win the pot with two other people in the hand. This assumes that they are calling with hands in the top 20% (which is pretty generous for $10 table I think).

I tend to overbet the pot in this situation to discourage drawing. That said, I really like your push against the scare card at the end.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet someone will post "fold preflop". Which is obviously nonsense, but.. I wouldn't bet this flop, I would go for a check/call. Your hand is very vulnerable and even if you're ahead now, with the multitude of draws here (straight + flush) it's unlikely you will be by the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to offer an alternative to check-calling here; check-raising. In a multiway pot out of position a lot of the time you will get a bet, so you don't have to worry about the flop checking around. There are 3 overcards to your pair in addition to the flush/straight cards you don't want to see - I want to charge my villians to see that turn if I can, but I want to do it in such a way that will both extract value from worse hands taking a stab and still protects my hand.

If the board checks around and a scare card hits the turn, I can check-fold without bloating this small pot.

Advantages to check-call: you can either lose a small pot if a scare card hits the turn or you can get the chips in as a much larger favorite (against a flush or straight draw) if it doesn't. Disadvantages: You cost yourself the pot the times someone has a draw or even an overcard.

Advantages to check-raise: you protect your hand and possibly induce bluffs from worse hands for chips you wouldn't get by betting out. Also you can induce strong draws like a nut flush draw to fold. Disadvantges: you can often get more chips in with a worse hand, and you bloat the pot making it more difficult to play on the turn if called.

Advantages to betting: well, you're probably going to get hands like middle pair to fold immediately and draws to call you with their implied odds. So what were the advantages again?

[tigerite]

Check-raise is an option, too. I can't fault that line also. I just think the main value you will get from KTo here is in snapping off a bluff, and whilst the c/r line may achieve this to an extent, I think you can win more on the turn if it's a brick. Meh, it's close either way.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise is an option, too. I can't fault that line also. I just think the main value you will get from KTo here is in snapping off a bluff, and whilst the c/r line may achieve this to an extent, I think you can win more on the turn if it's a brick. Meh, it's close either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was going for - both lines are totally valid with pros and cons. But both are superior to betting.

well keep in mind i'm no donk on the 11's but compared to the rest of the board, I started playing poker yesterday. I thought this queen would be the next best card to a king or ten on the turn and thought with all the outs, it was worth taking a stab at the turn. the pot was already big so I figured an all-in was justified.

I do, however see your point that there can easily be an AQ, AT, KQ(worst of all) which would probably end up losing the hand for me. but meh, it all worked out and i got second place in the tourney.