Nut straight on turn, board pairs on river

[Jim Easton]

Party Poker 5/10
I'm in the cut-off with A28J, EP calls, folded to me, I raise - EP would have raised with an A2, so I knew my low would be good, button (a reasonable to good player) calls, BB calls and EP calls

Flop is 37T, 2 hearts, BB and EP check, I bet, button raises, BB folds, EP calls, I call (thought about raising, but I don't like to 3 bet a draw unless there are more people in the pot), 3 to the turn

9s on turn, I have the nuts, with the nut low draw, EP checks, I bet, button raises EP calls 2 cold, I raise, button raises, EP calls. I put the button on the straight or a set and EP on a low draw worse than mine.

River is the 7s, board is paired, but no flush and no low. EP checks, I check and button bets. EP raises. So much for the low draw. I figure he had to have a set or 2 pair to take that much heat on the turn. I also have to be concerned the button had flopped a set and filled on the river and would raise again. I decide there is a far better than 90% chance I am beaten and fold rather than calling 2 cold. Button calls and wins with the jack high straight.

I don't like to be results oriented, but I am not an O8 expert. I think I have to fold in that situation. I checked the hand history and EP had AA84, with the nut heart draw. I think the check raise bluff was a terrible play after we capped the turn. I assume it was a bluff, I can't imagine him thinking aces up was good. There was over $200 in the pot and there was no way we both fold. Does he get a couple of idiot points for that move, or was it reasonable?

Input on my thought processes is appreciated.

[chaos]

I tend not to raise preflop without a hand with a high scoop potential and A28J is not one. Other than that I think you played it fine. I would lay it down also when facing 2 bets.

Maybe EP thought you both were jamming on low draws or straights and would fold when faced with the possibilty of a full house and no low. Who knows what other players are thinking. Unless they demonstrate that they are strong players I tend not ot worry about it.

[Jim Easton]

At the time, I felt the raise was reasonable in that situation, but I think you are right and I should have limped.

The button called with 89TJ, with the 9 & T suited. Ignoring the fact you know my raise was weak, is that a reasonable hand for calling a raise cold in a short-handed pot (1 EP limper, plus the cut-off raiser at a full table)? I would have folded it, it just doesn't seem "big" enough for a high only hand.

[beernutz]

Any chance there was some collusion between EP and button? I've seen stranger things than what the EP did on the river, it is Party after all, but that seems like a very 'timely' check raise.

[Jim Easton]

I almost put something about that in my initial post, but didn't want to come off as a conspiracy theorist. I have all of the hand histories, so I might look through them for that. I will certainly watch them closely in the future.

[beetman]

On the river, if you take your foot off the gas in a multiway pot, you can be pushed off the best hand by facing two cold on the river. One way to prevent this potentially disasterous situation is to aggressively value bet. I don't think it's unreasonable to value bet the river here. You could be called by a 68 straight, or someone who's been jamming with something like big pair + a low draw + hearts or similar will call. On a board like this, with a bunch of middling cards, I wouldn't be too terribly afraid of a full house, especially when one person limped UTG and the other cold called a raise, and UTG's been calling along the whole way (and just checked the river.) If you bet and it's raised and re-raised back to you, you can probably safely fold, and if you bet and it's one bet back to you, you make a crying call.

I have no idea what EP was thinking (it's an odd player that would raise preflop with any old A2 but limp with AA4xs), but perhaps he put you on AA as well, and thought he could push you off it, or perhaps he thought the 7 pairing gave him the best hand (beating a smaller two pair.) A middling board like that, where J8 makes the nuts, isn't terribly likely to have hit a preflop raiser or cold caller, so I guess it's not entirely unreasonable to think that aces up was the best hand.

As far as the cold call with 89TJ, it's crap, but lots of people will play it. High only hands don't play well in raised pots against few opponents in the first place (they need a bigger field), and medium sized cards stink, so it's doubly bad.