World Class Player Reveals Secrets

[baronzeus]

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Kings in this game--beat. OK, now aces in this game--beat. Okay, now queens in this game--beat. And on and on and on.


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A WCP would know that this happens and uunderstande variance. You seem to think it is an anomaly. Again, please go away.

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I actually have the same problem as Fletch. I kept losing with good hands so I assumed party was biased towards bad hands-so one hand I capped preflop with 23o - and lo and behold! The flop came 332r!!! And I AA, KK, and QQ all lost to my mightiness.

Clearly you have the wrong strategy Fletch. You've figured out that Party is rigged, but you haven't yet adjusted to the correct way of playing.




On a note about random # generators, I am sure Party's is top of the line, but it's still not completely random. Such a thing is impossible.

[lefty rosen]

Just from getting them cracked by junk consistently you know the games aren't world class......

[AngryCola]

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Such a thing is impossible.

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If you want to get incredibly technical, yes. But their RNG is based off entropy from multiple sources, so it ends up being more random than physical decks.

[droolie]

Have you read anything in the strategy forums or just the zoo?

If you spent much time in the strategy forums and got to know some of the regular posters you would quickly realize that a great many of them are extremely skilled and indeed winning over the course of many hands. I don't need to see them play to know they are truly winners. They prove their ability by making sound posts and defending their thought process in a manner that is undeniably expert. Substance talks and bs gets shot down viciously. You can doubt it all you want but it is certainly true that many players here are beating their respective games handily. Many make a very decent primary living multi-tabling but most (myself included) make a nice secondary wage, through bonuses and yes gameplay as a part-time hobby.

Why are they beating the game handily while you, the World Class Player, are struggling along? They understand that studying and improving their understanding of the game, no matter their skill level, is just as important as actually playing the game (if not more). They spend countless hours in self-reflection and self-scrutiny. They read a wide variety of books, they read them again (and again), they seek differing opinions and they discuss concepts and argue the finer points specific situations ad nauseum. Do You? I doubt it. You sound like the type who thinks he's reached the top of the mountain and has had the game "all figured out" for years because you've seen everything twice already. Your learning process stopped and now you just play the game the only way you know how. You are unaware of your leaks because you lack the ability to be honest with yourself and to take a cold hard look at what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong.

Most of the 2+2 online winners work very hard at their own games and help other players identify leaks of their own to help crystalize concepts in their own minds. This process is making them better players everyday. When they hit some adversity they don't assume the site is crooked but instead try to find the real reason for their struggles and invariably come to the conclusion that they need to play better. They work harder at knowing their oponents tendencies and exploiting their weaknesses and adjusting their own games to prevent others from doing the same to them. Did you do that? Or were you so busy disrespecting their games and trying to add tables that you couldn't remember anything about most of the players at the table? Did you have a database of stats to analyze your play and the play of your opponents and spend hours using the info to get an edge? If you played at all frequently your opponents had this info on you. This is part of what makes them winners online.

The funny thing is that I have never seen any of them, even the most wildly successful and profitable players, call themselves World Class Players. Most of them though arrogant and at times haughty are at their core self-deprecating and painfully aware of the need to continue to improve in order to stay ahead of the competition.

I firmly believe these players are outplaying you. I'd be willing to bet that many of them have played more hands in two years than you played in 30. They understand the betting patterns better and play the percentages better. They outstudy you, outwork you and outplay you. If you, the World Class Player, wants to be in their league you need to work harder at improving your own game. Maybe by participating in the strategy forums instead of whining in the zoo you might actually begin to realize you do in fact have a lot to learn yet. I doubt you will which is a shame because not only would you learn but you could potentially add a very different perspective that the rest of us could benefit from as well.

Poker is changing and either improve or be prepared to have more losing years in your future because this generation of 15/30 online players (and the next and the next) will be filling your casino tables before too long and the games will certainly get much tougher. Do you want to continue to be able to beat them or do you want to start suspecting that something "fishy" is going on in your beloved B&M's?

The choice is your's anonymous World Class Player.

[Lestat]

All I want to know is do the wcp that you know acknowledge a loss of edge online?

I'm certain online is beatable and quite profitable. But I am just as certain that you lose massive amounts of edge. If you could beat the same 9 players in a live game for 1sb/hr., you'll be lucky to beat them for 1/3 of that online.

Some of the reasons for lost edge online are quite obvious. But I'm not sure they account for all of the loss. My belief is that edge is tampered with. But even if I'm wrong and it's something else, there is no doubt about this loss of edge. I'd be curious what your wpc pals have to say about edge lost online vis`a`vis if they were playing these same players in a live casino.

[obsidian]

Damn just leave the attention whore alone.

[Mackas]

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Are you absolutely sure that you got the trojan from that link? I just searched my computer and its clean (so far as I can tell). No "you1" file or anything like that. Furthermore, I was under the impression that albinoblacksheep was relatively reputable. I've seen other people post links to other parts of that website before on these boards (for example, the flash cartoon about posting on internet message boards). This is why I assumed it was fine.

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Norton autoprotect (not just a routine scan) picked it up within 30 seconds of opening the link, I was doing nothing else at the time and there was no other avenue of infection that I'm aware of, so I'm pretty sure.

In any event for what its worth I never thought for a second you intended it, given your posting record in the forum. I did not intend in any way to insinuate that. I just wanted to warn other posters and check if I should be doing anything else.

Good Luck

Mackas

[FlFishOn]

" But their RNG is based off entropy from multiple sources, so it ends up being more random than physical decks. "

Spoken like a man who's seen the code.

You don't know dick about their RNG.

Didn't you treaten/promise to go away a few months ago? Follow through.

[jman220]

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Such a thing is impossible.

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If you want to get incredibly technical, yes. But their RNG is based off entropy from multiple sources, so it ends up being more random than physical decks.

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This brings up an interesting point. Is it possible that one of the reasons card distribution "seems" different live from online is that cards live are actually not random enough. We have plenty of ways of tracking the randomness of cards online, through the use of programs like pokertracker, etc, but no real way to track hundreds of thousands of live hands.

[Rudbaeck]

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" But their RNG is based off entropy from multiple sources, so it ends up being more random than physical decks. "

Spoken like a man who's seen the code.

You don't know dick about their RNG.

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Being more random than a physical deck is trivial. You don't even need a true random source for that. As long as you can't find the seed pseudorandom beats the crap out of a physical shuffle.

Now luckily there are true random events in the universe! Decay of radioactive isotopes for example. A borderline situation is thermal noise, but for this purpose it's as close as needed. And alot cheaper than enough radioactive isotopes to generate hundreds of 225 bit seeds every second.

But as PartyPoker is run by idiots they don't use either of those! They in fact use a crude pseudorandom generator, the seed is based on a SHA-1 hash of the number of times a java virtual machine managed to loop in a given time. (This is so 1992!) Read all about it: On their RNG page (Yes, this is the SeedGenerator class from sun's java.)