4 flush in BB

d10 · #1 07-10-2005, 08:04 PM

Anyone play this differently?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (7.66 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, Button calls.

River: (9.66 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets

Final Pot: 10.66 BB

edit: Removed the question marks from the last bet, as I'm more concerned about the other streets. The river bet is somewhat forced given the play on earlier streets, the question mark was asking about the play throughout the entire hand, not just the end.

exist · #2 07-10-2005, 08:14 PM

sure, the dude isn't calling with a missed flush draw is he?

Buck_65 · #3 07-10-2005, 08:16 PM

Hell yeah you bet. You're not winning if you don't bet, and you only need villain to fold a little over 10% of the time for this play to be profitable. I'm pretty sure villain folds here far more often than that.

Willluck · #4 07-10-2005, 08:20 PM

looks okay, I bet there if I play it the same way. I don't think I like the flop c/r, I guess it adds deception, but I think I like leading out.

partygirluk · #5 07-10-2005, 08:23 PM

flop c/r is for value. He doesn't hand to bet out and have UTG raise and lose the others.

d10 · #6 07-10-2005, 08:24 PM

Probably not. I'm not sure what other choice I have on the river. But others might have bet out on the flop, or after checkraising the flop, checked the turn in hopes of catching a free card. Maybe even folded preflop? I don't know. I just felt like I was butchering the hand as I played it.

Buck_65 · #7 07-10-2005, 08:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Probably not. I'm not sure what other choice I have on the river. But others might have bet out on the flop, or after checkraising the flop, checked the turn in hopes of catching a free card. Maybe even folded preflop? I don't know. I just felt like I was butchering the hand as I played it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I play it exactly the same way. It took some time to come to this conclusion. Betting the flop is bad because UTG very likely raises to clear the field which may make the bet -EV. Check-raising is for value, and betting the turn may well fold out hands that are currently beating you, so this seems better than check-calling. Since the pot is large enough to warrent a river bluff, you may as well run it.

odawg09090 · #8 07-10-2005, 08:58 PM

I think this wasn't played correctly. With an UTG raise, an ace is very likely and thus a Check-Raise faces the risk of UTG 3-betting and driving out the others. This would leave you out of position vs. UTG raiser with a flush draw, a very bad position. I like just check calling with a hand where I have no outs besides my flush draw.

Given the line you took, a river bet is a must.

Just my thoughts.

Nick C · #9 07-10-2005, 09:00 PM

I think the decision on the turn is the most difficult one, and the best play depends to some extent on how the table has been running (and how UTG and Button in particular have been playing).

If I don't think UTG will lay down a pocket pair in fear of the ace, and if he also isn't that aggressive preflop and doesn't seem to raise a hand like KQ (and then auto-bet it on the flop), then a turn bet starts to lose some of its appeal. Also, if he or Button are the wait-and-pop-the-turn type, that might also make me hesitate.

I do think you need to be able to get rid of UTG on the turn to have a worthwhile bluff on the river if you miss, so I'm thinking your read on him may be the most important question.

If Button is the type who loves to cold-call preflop with ace-rag, though, then that's another reason to consider checking the turn.

Stack · #10 07-10-2005, 09:02 PM

I like the flop c/r. Is for a thin value, and it adds folding equity. Sets up futures hands also.

Turn, I bet to use the folding equity I gained on my flop play, and I have a great draw.

River: Well, betting is now the only hope so bet.

The question is, what if our turn bet doesn't get us headsup. I guess we're check/folding the river in that case.