Complete/folding in the small blind

[PseudoPserious]

Hi all,

Is it ever correct to complete the small blind, then fold to a raise from the big blind? Here's the hand...

Online 0.50/1.00. I'm dealt 2c 7c in the small blind. UTG+1, MP, CO, button call. I complete. Big blind raises. All call around to me. I fold.

1) With 5.5 SB in the pot, is my mighty 72s worth half a small bet?

2) With 11 SB in the pot, is my mighty 72s worth a small bet?

In both cases, I'm getting 11-1 immediate pot odds on my money. I completed for .25 and folded for another .50 because of the difference in implied odds. Since there's no longer any possibility of a raise behind me, should I go ahead and call for another .50?

As an aside, I have played with the big blind many times before -- he is relatively tight and doesn't raise very often. I was rather surprised when he raised, and then rather unsurprised when he showed down AA at the end (losing to a QTs who flopped two pair).

Many thanks,
PP

[Homer]

I suppose there must be hands where you would call 1/2 bet, but then fold to another full bet. Even though the pot odds are 11:1 in both cases, the first call is easier because your implied odds are twice as good as they are for the second call.

Hopefully others with something better to say will chime in. I'm surprised this hasn't received any responses.

-- Homer

[BB King's]

I would call both bets - but many a times I've been told I'm much to loose in the small blind.

[butters]

maybe this is one of the holes in my game, but i'm folding 72s in the small blind without hesitation regardless of the action before me. is this something i should be considering playing? (and why?)

[Homer]

You can play any two suited in the SB after a couple of limpers. You will be getting pot odds of at least 7:1 and great implied odds, since you only have to put in half a small bet. Obviously, you are playing only to flop a 4-flush or made flush only (once in a while you'll get lucky and flop two-pair or trips, but that's not the reason for playing the hand).

-- Homer

[butters]

[ResidentParanoid]

I routinely toss such hands in the SB. Am I giving away much?

[bernie]

im sure it's correct in some instances, but i never do it. this is one of my only 'always/never' rules...

anytime i limp in (or complete, in this case) it should be able to withstand a raise behind it. if i fold to a raise here, i shouldnt have limped in in the first place....if there's 2 bets coming back, THEN i can exercise my fold option.

you should always anticipate possibilities behind you. even if remote. i really smile inside when i see MP limpers limp fold to a raise....why were they even limping?

here, id have limped and called the raise, miss the flop, i fold. because it's a tight player raising, i may grit my teeth a little on the call, but id still call.

b

[Andy B]

Bernie, I am pretty damned sure that your always/never policy is incorrect. The big blind is not going to raise the overwhelming majority of the time. Given that, I think it makes sense to toss in half a bet with a lot of hands (including any two suited, to answer the original question), especially if you play well after the flop. If the big blind raises, you can re-evaluate. As an example, a couple of weak players limp in, and you have KTo. I thing this is worth half a bet. If the big blind then raises, I think you have a fold, as KTo is hurting against the class of hands that most people, especially low-limit players, raise with out of the blinds. Say you're up against a guy who only raises out of the big blind with AA, KK, or AKs. That's about 1% of his possible hands, right? Are you going to forego a whole bunch of potentially profitable small blind calls because of a 1%, or even a 3% chance that you'll have to forfeit your half-bet? I think you're leaving money on the table.

For the original poster: if you're inclined to pay off when you flop a 7, be more inclined to fold, but basically, you've got a call, both times. You're hoping to make a flush.

[PseudoPserious]

AndyB,

I'd be inclined to pay off a flopped 7 as long as a deuce or two flopped with it.

This afternoon I looked at the EV when you call a raise and when there is no raise, based on different post-flop betting scenarios. I did find a range in which the first limp was +EV and the subsequent call was -EV...I guess if you could accurately predict what the post-flop action was going to look like, you could determine when complete/folding was proper.

But in any case, as was pointed out above, it's a mariginal situation at best (small +/- EV), so why be overly worried about it?

Many thanks for the replies...
PP