Foxwoods, an angle waiting to happen

[scrub]

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When you sitdown at a Foxwoods table, you notice a line on the felt that goes all around the table. In some casinos this is a betting line. At Foxwoods it is a please push your bet or cards here so the dealer doesn't have to stretch line. So one angle some players will call on you is if you put a bet in front of your cards but before the line. Since it looks like a betting line people do it all the time. I have not seen anyone try this angle.

The 2nd one is potentially worse and is for people that take a stack of chips and then only drop some of the chips. Well another player in the hand can call you on this and say you have to bet the whole stack of chips. Again I have not seen anyone call the angle, but I know some people will do it so be careful. One of the guys at my table was talking about this and said he would call someone on it everytime if he had a good hand. The problem is the dealer can't call it, so unless you know the rule, you can easily be angled. I don't like the fact the dealers don't warn people about it. Not sure how other casinos work with this situation.

Of course the solution is only bring forward the chips you want to bet. Thats what I do.

Ken

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When I was a regular there, I saw both of these angles shot more than once in the 5/5 game.

Foxwoods has terrible staff and terrible rules.

scrub

[Durs522]

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Foxwoods took the hit and paid the other player the bet that was 'called'

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BS??

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Yeah, for anyone who has played Foxwoods this is hard to believe.

Durs

[disjunction]

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Most people who bet this way are not trying to gauge opponents reactions.


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I think some of them are. I don't call it, though, keeping the game friendly and all.

[Randy_Refeld]

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At Foxwoods it is a please push your bet or cards here so the dealer doesn't have to stretch line.

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Ergonomics line. That is the only real purpose of this line. Having a betting line leads to more anlges as now a player can make a motion to bet and stop short of the line.

It is possible they (FOxwoods managment) isn't aware of this, but normally in NL you can assemble your bet then push it in or make it in more than one motion. Because of this extra care should be taken before reacting to someone's motion.

edit: I read the rest of the thread and it appears they do in fact use limit rules for NL games. I would never play in an unregulated casino where they were unaware of how the game is played.

[youtalkfunny]

I bet you would, if it was the only game in town.

[flecks]

I agree that some of these guys are angle shooting. Even if they're feigning strength it's still angle shooting. It should be considered a raise but I've never seen it enforced.

[Ulysses]

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Foxwoods took the hit and paid the other player the bet that was 'called'

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BS??

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Yeah, for anyone who has played Foxwoods this is hard to believe.

Durs

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Or anyone who has played in a cardroom anywhere.

[Shoe]

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When I was there a couple of months ago I saw a guy get called on this in a deep stacked 5/5 game. There were two guys in the hand and on the turn or the river one guys bets something like $1000 and this other guy (kind of a donkey) sits there thinking for a while then starts counting chips in front of his cards. After some time he decides he is going to fold, but the other guy protested that since this guy was counting his chips in front of his cards he is obliged to call. The guy then flips out and says there is no way he is paying because he didn't 'put his chips across the line' and the floor tells him that the line doesn't mean anything, that it is just there to help the dealers out. He ended up storming out clutching his chips. Foxwoods took the hit and paid the other player the bet that was 'called' and I would guess the other guy has never seem the inside of foxwoods again.

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What if you keep your cards to the side of your chips, and some of your chips are in front of your cards? Is your whole stack considered a bet then even if you don't touch those chips? That seems like a very strange rule to me. I normally keep my cards all the way up against the rail, next to my chips, should I be doing something different? I always keep my cards agains the rail to make sure I am "protecting my hand"

I only play limit, and rarely go to a B&M, so it might not matter much for me, but any clarification on this would be helpful.

[GrannyMae]

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In some casinos this is a betting line. At Foxwoods it is a please push your bet or cards here so the dealer doesn't have to stretch line.

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i was *shocked* when someone told me this was not a betting line. i almost argued with the regular that he MUST be wrong. only place i had seen the circle put in was at grand biloxi and it was certainly a betting line there. i love this line when used strictly as a betting line. as a 'please put your chips out there so the dealer can reach it" line, i hate it. and yes, i have seen more moves by angle shooters at foxwoods than anywhere else. it is the same 10 guys tho so it is not a big deal. however, that line is worthless and confusing as it is currently being used.

[AKQJ10]

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In some casinos this is a betting line. At Foxwoods it is a please push your bet or cards here so the dealer doesn't have to stretch line.

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My first time in a Foxwoods $2/4 limit game, before carding for the button to open a new table, the dealer explained very clearly that cards in front of the line were mucked and chips in front of the line were a bet. So apparently at some point that was the intent, or some dealers were trained that way, or one dealer made the same assumption as us. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I don't recall ever hearing that ostensible rule mentioned again, although short-armed dealers will ask you to push bets up to the line.

There's no reason why that would be a limit/NL difference, is there? In other words, the rule as explained that first time I ever visited Foxwoods could also apply to NLHE (i.e. count out your raise before pushing it over the line) right?