When in history did atheism become the only choice?

BZ_Zorro · #1 07-21-2005, 02:16 AM

Any thinking, rational person of today has to admit that in the year 2005, God is an absurb hypothesis. Science has progressed to the point where we can safely say the universe functions just fine without any divine intervention, and everything that exists/has ever existed can be explained sufficiently by naturalism. Where things haven't been explained, it is fairly obvious to an open minded person that 'God did it' is one of the most childish and least useful explanations we can come up with. And wrong on so many levels.

But 1000 years ago, we didn't have answers to a lot of simple questions. For example:

1. What are the sun and the stars?
2. Where did people come from?
3. How can we think and feel?
4. What is the world made of?
5. How did everything get here, all the elements, all the amazing diversity of life
6. What makes life tick? How is life different to non life? What is the life force that drives us?
7. Where does morality come from?
8. What happens when we die?

Looking at these questions, it's fairly easy to see (I think) how an uneducated but otherwise intelligent and thoughtful person could believe in God. There's simply no other explanation for the amazing world as perceived by someone from that era.

So my question is, at what point could intelligent people begin to infer that God is just made up? What breakthroughs made it possible? Or have there always been atheists who didn't have the answers, but suspected the 'all powerful Superdaddy/Sky Fairy' theory wasn't it?

kpux · #2 07-21-2005, 02:24 AM

When Darwin wrote "The Origin of Species".

Peter666 · #3 07-21-2005, 02:28 AM

You start with a false premise by saying any thinking rational person cannot believe in God. Clearly God can be understood in an analogous manner. I do not need the impossible immediate proof that historical figures exist to believe that they existed. If I believe in Socrates, am I irrational?

There is nothing irrational about believing there may be a superior immaterial being outside of ourselves, especially since we have not made our own existence or can will it to stop existing.

Dov · #4 07-21-2005, 02:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So my question is, at what point could intelligent people begin to infer that God is just made up? What breakthroughs made it possible? Or have there always been atheists who didn't have the answers, but suspected the 'all powerful Superdaddy/Sky Fairy' theory wasn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I understand it so far, DS has said that we still haven't come far enough to say for certain and there are certainly many intelligent people who still believe in God for whatever reason.

I believe that the only litmus test that we've seen semi-articulated so far was David's contention that if computers can become conscious then God will be much less likely to exist.

The consciousness side hasn't been nailed down yet, but I think that he made his general point fairly clearly.

As to the rest of your questions, we still don't have the definitive answers to most of them, but we do have much more useful answers than we used to.

I can certainly understand your position, but you still need to make sure that you are not one now taking a leap of faith into what we don't know yet, but will discover.

Just keep your hat on and you know we'll get there eventually.

David Sklansky · #5 07-21-2005, 02:33 AM

"Clearly God can be understood in an analogous manner. I do not need the impossible immediate proof that historical figures exist to believe that they existed. If I believe in Socrates, am I irrational?

Cmon.

Peter666 · #6 07-21-2005, 02:36 AM

Do you believe in Socrates?

Dov · #7 07-21-2005, 03:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you believe in Socrates?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean that he existed or that he was God? (God's son, etc.)

Peter666 · #8 07-21-2005, 03:16 AM

Like in Santa Claus.

Dov · #9 07-21-2005, 03:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing irrational about believing there may be a superior immaterial being outside of ourselves, especially since we have not made our own existence or can will it to stop existing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is basically true.

I think the problem comes when you examine explanations that used to be attributed to God or Godlike beings that are now explained by science and technology.

The probability that the causes of current unknown phenomenon will be discovered by science increases with every new discovery while simultaneously decreasing the probability that God will maintain his place as the explanation for everything.

If this is fallacious, please point out how.

Peter666 · #10 07-21-2005, 03:58 AM

I think the only thing fallacious is not in your reasoning, but in people who try to limit God's nature by attributing to him material or limited conceptual characteristics.

The understanding of God as pure essence cannot be disproven by any means, even in abstract human thought. It would be like trying to say that we don't exist.

And although science can answer how things work, it does not answer why. This is beyond the natural realm that science works within.

So why people's prejudices of what God is may change in the future, it does not alter God in any way.