Strange (to me) advice in HEFAP

[Rozez]

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The answer is, it depends. I play in live cash games, and I've found that these hands don't do well with 5 or 6 other players involved. If its short-handed its an entirely different story.

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I think AJo isn't so bad six-handed. It depends a lot on your opposition of course. If your opponents have the "Any two can win" attitude, just go ahead and play it. But KJo and QJo are a different story. An isolation reraise could work against some players when you hold AJ but KJ and QJ are too weak for that so you should strongly consider folding them UTG. However, if you play against LAPs, limp in because you can almost always see the flop for one bet.

Rozez

[MarkD]

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I routinely throw away AJo, KJo, QJo, and the like in these game conditions.

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Wow.
Don't you even play them in late position?

AJo and KJo is solid winning hands for me at 0.25/0.5.
I play AJo from any position. I only play KJo from late position.

I play QJo from late position as well. That one is break even so far.

I have 26k hands in my PT database.

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The answer is, it depends. I play in live cash games, and I've found that these hands don't do well with 5 or 6 other players involved. If its short-handed its an entirely different story.

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And do you keep hand by hand stats by position for these live games? And have you played a few hundred thousand hands in live games?

[bobbyi]

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After doing this 764 times this year, at limits from 2/4 to 10/20, I am up 0.12 BB per hand.

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The online games tend to be relatively tight, so I don't think this would counter the book's claims about playing in very loose games even if 764 hands were a reasonable sample size from which to draw conclusions. (Note: I am not saying that I agree with the book's advice here).

[MarkD]

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After doing this 764 times this year, at limits from 2/4 to 10/20, I am up 0.12 BB per hand.

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The online games tend to be relatively tight, so I don't think this would counter the book's claims about playing in very loose games even if 764 hands were a reasonable sample size from which to draw conclusions. (Note: I am not saying that I agree with the book's advice here).

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Here (from pokerroom.com):
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Total EV statistics for AJ


Your query:
Pocket cards: AJ
Position: 1
Players: 10
Table limit: $1/2
EV = 0.06

</pre><hr />

And this is for your average knucklehead. We are supposed to do better. This is UTG in a 10 handed 1/2 game. Online 1/2 games are still probably fairly loose, although I've never seen what the pokerroom 1/2 games look like.

The hand is +EV for your average knucklehead. End of argument I think.

[Rudbaeck]

Position 3 is actually UTG in their confused table. 1&amp;2 are blinds.

[Rudbaeck]

I did better in the loose games with AJo UTG in the loose lower limit games. But at a table with merely two fishes and the rest decent-good players I still profit from raising it UTG.

[bilyin]

What Abdul actually said was; " Second best offsuit hands are what make you money in hold'em - when other players play them."

[BarronVangorToth]

Your experience may vary, but I believe that Small Stakes Hold 'em is perfect advice through the $10-20 or $20-40 live games whereas Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players is perfect advice from the $20-40 on up games... advice you'd give someone in a 20-game you wouldn't apply to a 5-game, yes?

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[New York Jet]

End of argument? Does this somehow show raising AJo UTG as more profitable than calling in a 1/2 game?

IMO, calling with AJo UTG in a full .5/1 ring game is best.

[pastabatman]

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End of argument? Does this somehow show raising AJo UTG as more profitable than calling in a 1/2 game?

IMO, calling with AJo UTG in a full .5/1 ring game is best.

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SSH says raise here in a loose game, call in a tight game. I guess in a loose game, you're hoping this high pair hand will get called by a bunch of lesser hands over which you have superior equity. In a tight game, you're not expecting so many callers, and overall better quality callers at that, so don't invest as much. Hopefully Ed will jump in here and provide the definitive analysis.

Pasta