Oh Yea? Call this.........

[Homer]

Worst case scenario as far as pot odds go is that you call the turn, EP folds, CO caps and you and button call. If this happens, you'll be getting 15:4 or 3.75:1 on the call. In practice, you might get better odds since EP may call and it may not be capped (if this happens you'll be getting 15:3 or 5:1 odds).

Assuming that someone already has a straight, you have 3 K outs to a chop (so essentially that's 1.5 outs) and maybe 8.5 flush outs to a win (if the Td is good half the time). So anyway, you have around 10 outs out of 46 unseen cards, so you're 3.6:1 against getting there on the river. Since at worst you'll be getting 3.75:1 on the call (and could be getting up to 5:1) and will have some additional help from implied odds when you get there, you have a call.

In practice, I would think "I have a big ass draw -- 12 outs if all are clean, which means I'm around 3:1 to get there. Even if EP folds and CO caps I'll be getting a good price, so I'm calling."

-- Homer

[slavic]

I was sitting there thinking that my drawing odds had just become marginal, but with at least 13 outs I'm no worse than fair odds on the call.

I grabbed 2 stacks, pushed them over the commitment line, and made a call. EP called (that suprised me), CO calls to close the action.

River(18BB) K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet out, EP calls, CO glares as she mucks, Button says he's paying me off.

What can I say the nuts are good.

EP had K9o and showed it, the button and the CO both had the broadway straight, on the river or so they said.

[bernie]

are you thinking of folding?

this is an easy call. one reaon i may not jack it here with a str8flush draw is that some of your outs may be gone and you may be splitting the pot if the str8 hits. but i may still raise it. im guessing with passive rocks on the table, theyre not semi bluffing here. so it wouldnt suprise me if someone had KJ given the action. meaning 3 of your outs are useless.

i'm seeing the river though

b

[bernie]

because you easily have the odds to call with the flush. and the chances are very high that your flush will be good if it hits. if you fold in these situations you will be losing lots of chips. youre almost 4-1 on your flush alone. along with your possible str8 or pot split potential, youre about even money against the opponents at this point. in some cases, you could be in +EV against the right opponents. youre not losing any money calling here, and sometimes youre making money with every bet they put in.

though in this hand, it looks much more like even money.

easy call. and yes, id even call a baby flush at this point.

b

[bernie]

he needs more players in this pot to really jam this on the turn. especially when the players arent the type to be semibluffing themselves. youre behind here. which, as i said above, you need more players to jam it for +EV.

b

[bernie]

i cant believe how many responses are saying to fold this. actually, i cant believe any responses are saying this.

this is an EASY CALL people!!!

if you really think youre making a strong case for folding, please, oh PLEASE!!! get in my game.

im sure MK will fully agree.

oh, and have a nice day

b

[slavic]

bernie

Thanks for posting this, because the reason I posted the hand was not that I had any concern about making the call, I was stuck with should I raise? CO and Button have to have at least a redraw to the broadway straight, they will call if I cap, but EP is the wild card. He may call two cold but will he call three? I'm sure I'm the only broadway draw who is free wheeling to the flush, and if I'm confident EP calls I should cap it. I let it pass and after EP called the two cold I was praying that the CO capped it.

[Ed Miller]

Ok, dude. There are 6 bets in the pot before the turn. You have 3 opponents. Let's assume the initial bettor folds and the initial raiser calls. That means you are getting 13-3 (or a little better than 4-1) on your call. You can expect to get at least one and probably two bets on the river when you get there. You have 9 outs to a flush (which will almost certainly give you the whole pot) and 3 more outs to some kind of chop. Even if you didn't have the chopping outs, you call here for just the flush (you are getting better than the 4-1 needed just from the pot, and you will get an extra couple of bets on the river). The fact that you have extra outs to money makes this a significant overlay.

Is that clear?

[Ed Miller]

Nah.. I don't think I would 4-bet. I think you want EP to call.. because you are probably chopping already with at least the CO if a non-diamond K comes, so if EP has a stiff Jack, it's not as attractive to push him out.

[MD_]

The call is not "expensive" at all. He's getting enough odds from the players in the pot that he should cap it if he knew that everybody with at least one bet in on this round would call. His fear about capping is that the initial bettor would fold, hence the call.

-MD