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Old 07-13-2003, 01:24 PM
davidross davidross is offline
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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Default Playing online for a living week 11

Sunday

What a great way to start the week. I played a short 1 hour session at Party around lunch time while my older daughter was at her riding lesson. Played 3 3/6 tables again and I won $380 in the hour. It was an unreal hour. Killed me to have to stop and go pick her up. Sunday night I decided to play Party 5/10 for a change and in my first orbit I lost $180. That wasn’t so much fun. I played until midnight at Party and lost $40 so I made a bit of a comeback. Again I don’t notice much difference between the 5/10 at Paradise and the game at Party. I had to go get my daughter from a friends and when I came back I went over to Paradise. Played for 2 ½ hours and went on another rush. Up $668 making it a $1,005 win for the day. Strange session, at one point I lost JJ, QQ KK and AA in the span of 10 minutes, but made sets with 55, 66 and 33 and won big pots. Got AKs 3 times and made the flush each time.

Monday

Played a 5 hour session at Party. Again these 3/6 games are very soft. After getting stuck early, I managed to play solid poker and post a nice $200 win. Lots of “experts” on these tables, telling everyone how badly they are playing. I used to waste energy trying to get them to shut up, but now I just stay quiet. My win would have been better except for yet another “mathematical catastrophe” I allowed myself to be part of. I really need to think longer before acting.

I have QQ utg and I raise. I get cold called once in LP and the BB calls too.

Flop is Ac Qc 7c.

BB bets, I raise and LP 2 bets. BB calls and I cap it (even if the flush is out there I have lots of outs). They both call.

Turn [Ac Qc 7c] 4s

I bet, LP raises and BB calls. Now I’m a little worried and just call. “No club, No club”

River [Ac Qc 7c 4s] Tc

Crap. BB checks, I check, LP bets, BB calls, and I have a brain lock and fold. There is over $100 in a 3/6 pot and I lay down a set. LP had 77, no club, and BB had A4 no club. I sat there stunned for about a minute. That’s 3 hours work at least handed away. Then to make it worse I started calling everyone down in stupid situations and wasted more bets. Thank goodness these games are as soft as they are, I was able to still post a win.

Evening

Tough Night. I played 4 ½ hours at Paradise on 3 different tables (2 at a time) and I had to rebuy on every one. I actually think I played very well, I just got cold decked all night. If I raised with AQ, the guy on my left had AK, and an A would flop. I got a free play with K8 in the BB against a limping SB, the flop came 8 high, he bet I raised and he called. I bet the turn he called, I checked the river and he had A8. I had QQ against KK and KK against AA. I lost AA to 44 (4 on flop) and AA to TT (T on flop) etc etc. I was down over 600 until a minor rush late in the session brought me back some. The games were actually pretty good just not my night for cards. I ended up down $390 for a loss on the day of $180.

A few observations;

1) Other players bad play will make me far more money than my fancy or brilliant plays.
2) The guy that leads with a bet on the turn after not betting previously, has a big hand.
3) Folding costs me nothing pre-flop. If it’s a close decision, I can’t go far wrong by folding. (I need to tape this to the computer)

Tuesday

Afternoon. Another huge day at Party. 3 tables again at the 3/6 limit and I won $470 in 4 hours. Obviously I’m getting good cards, but again the players here really pay you off when you hit. Here’s a good example.

2 limpers to me in the cut off and I limp with Ad Js. SB calls and BB checks.

Flop is As Th 3d.

SB bets and then 2 people fold. MP raises and it’s on me. I 3 bet. I don’t want to just call here, I’m more worried about 2 pair than a bigger ace. They both just call.

Turn [As Th 3d] Qs

I bet, SB calls and MP raises all-in. We both call. (I couldn’t raise because of the all-in, I really wanted to build a side pot to salvage something if he did have me beat.)

River [As Th 3d Qs] 8s

Again I bet and SB called.

SB had A7o and MP had A9o. That’s a pretty big pot for Aces with a J kicker.

Evening

Another bad night at Paradise. Really bad to start. For one thing the games were terrible. Tight with small pots. And I was cold-decked again. I made a flush against quads, flopped a straight only to see runner runner flush beat me. I got into a big hole early and with the tables being so tight saw little chance of getting back. I changed tables several times, but never made much headway. I was down $800 around 1:00 AM and ready for bed. My daughter was still up and put on a movie and the games were getting better as they often do at this time so I evaluated my play (I wasn’t playing poorly, just bad cards) and decided to keep playing. It paid off. I went on a nice run to end up down only $390 for the night and giving me a $70 win for the day. That puts me up $900 for the week.

I know I need to beat tight games as well as loose games if I want to be successful at this, and I guess we all find it easier to beat the loose games. Put very simply when the table gets real tight (15% seeing the flop last night for a while) I am the loosest player at the table, and I’m going to lose. These guys are limping in with AK and when I raise with AQ in late position I get nailed. In the loose games I’m one of the tighter players and my cards on the whole are better than my opponents so I’m going to be ahead more than behind. There that’s the simple explanation. I need to stay out of those tight games, or tighten right up.

I’ve played so straightforward in the 3/6 games with a lot of success. Here’s what happens at paradise when I try to generate some extra money from a hand.

I have Ks Jd in the cutoff. 2 limpers to me and I limp too. Small blind plays and the BB checks.

Flop Jh Jc 4s

4 checks to me so I check too. I know a bet might look suspicious and get some play, but there aren’t many hands that can be helped by this flop.

Turn Jh Jc 4s Th

Again checked to me and I bet. 3 folds and one call.

River [Jh Jc 4s Th] Qh

Now he bets. Uh oh. I raise thinking he might be betting his Q, and he just calls. He has AK for a straight. DOH!!

Wednesday

If only we knew ahead of time. I could have played for about 20 minutes yesterday and had the same end result as I got from 8 hours of play. My afternoon session was dead even for 2 hours and 45 minutes, then I got a major rush and in 15 minutes won $250. In the evening I won $50 on the first hand, and that’s where I finished the night 5 hours later, up $50.

The afternoon session at Party was the same as it has been, with lots of bad players. Today however they ran me down a lot more than they had been. I can’t complain, it’s been a very lucrative week in those 3/6 games. I’m considering playing them in the evenings too for a while. One guy limped UTG with 72o and beat my KK when both a 7 and a 2 flopped. Another guy called my AT raise with KT, and when an A and a Ten flopped I liked my chances, but he called all my bets and when a Q and J came he beat me. Still, I’ve taken $2,200 out of that game in just one week, I have nothing to complain about.

The evening session at Paradise was a grind. I made quad Tens and a straight flush early in the session, but won very few other pots. In fact I won only 8% for the 600 hands I played on the night, but I did win big pots. I’m very pleased with the evolution of my game, I’m picking my spots a lot better and passing on marginal situations. I bbelieve it’s reducing my variance. I’m also playing much more aggressively when I’m in a hand. I think I probably lose a little more when I’m beat, but win much more when I’m good.

It’s been a good week so far, $1,200 for the 4 days. I hope it continues, I need to build a bankroll before my vacation in August as I won’t be able to play for 2 weeks. There is no phone service in the cottage we rent so I can’t even connect at night to try. Job prospects are slim and none right now.

Thursday

Another great afternoon at Party. I’m on a huge rush right now. I know the games are soft, but I’m clearly winning at a much higher than normal rate. Thank goodness since I’m in a rut at Paradise. I won $420 in 4 hours at Party.

I did some investigating and found out I can get a kit for my cell phone to hook it up to a laptop and it will act as a high speed modem. The kit will cost $100 and I’m pretty sure I can borrow a laptop for my vacation. I would love to play a little while we’re away and try to defray some of the costs. The only sticky point is going to be airtime. There is a promotion on right now giving me low-cost air time for data transfer only, but I think it only applies to within Canada. I’m afraid the roaming charges will make it too expensive to try.

Aggression. I guess we all know how much better it is to be the aggressor and here’s a hand that demonstrated it. I had Qc Tc and limped in first from EP. At paradise I would raise or fold first in, but these games I am less likely to to be raised and I could get a lot of limpers. As it was I only got 1 caller and both blinds. Flop was an ugly A J 5 rainbow, one club. It was checked around. Turn was another 5 checked to me and I made a play for the pot by betting my gutshot and I got called. Yuck. River was a 6 and I bet again, and he folded. I don’t do this very often, and I guess that makes it more effective when I do. Who knows I might have been best anyway.

A well disguised hand. This will put a guy on tilt. UTG limps, LP calls and the button calls, and I get a free play with the monster 3s 2h.

Flop 4h 5d Qh

Utg bets, LP folds and button calls. I just called.

Turn [4h 5d Qh] Qs

UTG bets again, button calls again and I call too.

River [4h 5d Qh Qs] Ad

Yes. I hate to miss a bet by having it checked around, but I think this is the perfect spot for a check-raise. UTG bets again, button calls again and I raise. UTG re-raises and button calls. Now I’m worried. 44 and 55 pop into my head. I don’t think AQ or Q5 or Q3 are likely, and I know I’m beating the button. I probably should have capped it but I wussed out. I was good, UTG had KQ and button had 99. I love the button.

Numerology. This was weird. Simultaneously I got these 3 hands. Table 1, 66 and saw a flop of 99x. Table 2, 99 saw a flop of 66x. Table 3 69, I didn’t see the flop. I told my wife it must be a sign…and she told me to go back to work.

Evening. Another grind at Paradise. 5 hours, 600 hands and a $95 win. I double checked my results spreadsheet and this is the first time since March (When I was playing 2/4) that I’ve had 2 straight sessions with a swing less than $100. Again I don’t think I got my fair share of cards, so I’m happy with any win. I won 8% of the hands I saw, and only 28% when I saw the flop. I saw 25% of the flops. I won 50% of my showdowns. I like to see 11% wins, 33% when I see the flop, and 55% of the showdowns. A lot of the weak players have gone from the Paradise 5/10 games. There is no doubt the games are tougher than they were a couple of months ago. I was resisting switching my 5/10 play to Party because of the bankroll, but my Party bankroll is almost as big as my Paradise one now. I will probably finish this week the same way, afternoons at Party and evenings at Paradise, but I may switch next week to Party exclusively for a while.

Another thing I’ve noticed is how tight my games have become. I changed tables around 5 times last night because the flop % for the table got under 20%. Within 15 minutes the table I left would be up to 25-30%. It can’t be my play driving it down because as I’ve said I’m playing around 25%, so I wonder if people are playing tighter because of me. My profile has been raised because of these posts, and there is no doubt some people have mistaken the fact that I’m playing full time with the assumption that I’m a very strong player, but I didn’t think the people playing in those games would fall into that group. It’s probably just a fluke, but I’m a little concerned about that. My game can’t withstand the tables tightening up.

I had another brutal start last night and spent the entire evening digging out of the hole. I don’t think it’s a homeresque tilt start but you tell me. All these were within 20 hands of starting.

I open raise 3 off the button with ATo. Cold called in the cutoff. Heads up the flop is AJ4. Bet call. Turn is a 7, Bet, raise, I call. River a 7. Check, bet call, he has AQ. Great start.

I open raise with AK in EP. Cold called on the button and the BB. Flop is AT6. I bet, button calls and BB folds. Turn is a J I bet he calls. River is a K, I bet he raises I call, he had AQ.

I played from small blind with 33 against 4 others. Flop A34. I bet, got called and raised, then I 3 bet. Caller folded, raiser called. Turn was a 9. I bet he called. River a 2. I bet got raised and called. He had A5s.
Etc etc.

Then the good. A semi bluff that worked out. I think this is the true definition of the semi-bluff. I thought I might take the pot down with the raise, but I didn’t, then I hit anyway. I have AC 4c and limped in LP behind another limper. Button and BB saw the flop too. Flop is 8s 5s 3c. EP bets and I called with my gutshot/ backdoor flush/ single overcard combination. Turn is the Tc. EP bets again and I thought this was a perfect spot for the semi-bluff. Presumably he had an 8 and the turn raise would represent a big hand. But the button ruined that plan by calling the raise. The EP guy called too. River was the beautiful Jc. EP bet out, I raised again, and the button called again?? I guess my hand was well disguised now. EP raised again and I raised again. Button finally folded and EP called. EP had KJ ??

Friday

9th straight winning session at Party 3/6. I’m seriously questioning why I’m playing anything else right now. This was a small win only $70 for 5 hours. It was a real grind actually and I was quite exhausted by the end of it, but a win is a win.

You know it’s going to be a tough session when…very first hand I played.

I have 33 posting in the cutoff. There is one limper, and I check. A raise from the BB and we both called.

Flop 4s 3s Jd

Checked to me and I decide the board is benign enough and I’m going to slowplay (Remember I promised not to do this anymore). I check too.

Turn [4s 3s Jd] As

BB bets, EP raises and I smile thinking my little plan worked to perfection and I 3 bet. They both call.

River [4s 3s Jd As] 6c

BB checks, EP bets and I raise. They both call.

BB had AKs and paid 2 bets on the river to see if his A was good (Did I mention I love these games). EP had AA (Limped pre-flop, did’t re-raise). I guess I should be happy I didn’t lose more.

DO you like this play?

2 limpers to me on the button with Kd Td and I limp along (I thought about raising but these guys play so many weak Aces that I don’t think I can represent an Ace if it flops). BB plays too.

Flop Ad Tc 6h

Checked twice then bet in front of me. I raised. Here is my thinking.

1) I may be best. Not likely in this game but possible.
2) I will probably knock out QJ, which would kill me if my K came. I might even knock out a weak A if I do happen to be ahead here.
3) I will probably get to see the river now for ½ price.

It worked and I got two folds, and the bettor called.

Turn [Ad Tc 6h] Ks

Well now it really worked out. Checked to me, I bet, he called

River [Ad Tc 6h Ks] 4d

Check, Bet, Call. He has A9 and I won a nice pot. Without being results oriented though, who likes the play. Would you fold or just call?

Evening

We went out to dinner as a family and rented a movie, so I didn’t get down to Poker until almost midnight. I had a felling all day that I was going to have a big night at paradise. I started hitting almost as soon as I sat down and within 30 minutes I was up $350. Then I flopped a set of 8’s in a huge 5 way raised pot. The board was 2389 and when a T rivered one of the blinds bet out and beat me with 67. I didn’t win another pot for an hour. I didn’t win another big pot all night. I ended up down $320 3hours later. I got AA in the BB twice, and it was folded to me each time. What made it doubly frustrating was there was one very bad player playing the same two tables as me and he lost his entire buy in on both tables, but none of it to me. Reviewing my play again I think I played good solid poker, and these games are still beatable, I just need some hands to hold up.

So I am now up $1,450 for the week. Still ahead of my goal, but not by much.

Saturday

Another afternoon session at Party. Played around 3 hours and won $340. Again, nothing fancy. Play good cards including any pair and suited connectors. Play very tight post-flop, I raise fold a lot more here than ever before. And it’s amazing how patience pays off here. I find it’s just a slow steady win usually. That’s my 10th straight win and I think I will try playing there in the evening too this week and see how it goes. I want to keep playing some 5/10 because when the deck hits me in the face, as it will do once in a while, I can make a lot more at 5/10. As of this moment my Party bankroll is now larger than my Paradise bankroll and I guess I could give the Party 5/10 a chance too. I think I will use what’s left in the Paradise account for vacation and use the Party money as my stake. Paradise will get one last try tonight.


Time for a break from Paradise. Another card dead session and I lost $436 in a 4 hour session. AA twice, won $20 once and lost a big pot on the river to a straight. Lost KK 3 times, lost QQ twice. Never once flopped top pair with a big Ace. Made 3 sets, wonthe blinds twice and lost to a bigger set the 3rd time. And so on. Again the game seemed beatable, there were two bad players and the usual group of average players. I’m trying to be as honest as I can, because the competitor in me wants to keep playing this game and beat it, because I’m sure I can. But the good poker player in me says I make money off people playing in games they shouldn’t be in and I’m starting to suspect I might be one of them. Even if I’m not overmatched, there are softer games available and I need to take advantage of them. So to summarize the week Paradise -$727 Party + $2,107. To be honest a real disappointing finish. If I just go to bed Friday and Saturday night I’m up over 2,000 for the week.

So after 11 weeks I’m pretty safe in saying I can probably make $50,000 a year in US dollars, tax free. That’s nothing to sneeze at, and honestly pretty close to what I can take home with a full time job after taxes, but considerably below what I made as a contract worker. I have fewer job prospects right now though than I did when I started this adventure so I will continue to play. I am going to take a break from the weekly report for a while. I don’t have anything new to say. I still love being home everyday, but the emotional swings are tremendous. After a good day I walk on air, and after nights like last night I feel sick and depressed. I am (or was) as easy going as anyone I know. Living day to day like this certainly changes a lot of things. I’m also not sure I want my kids seeing me in front of a computer all day playing games for much longer.

Thanks to everyone for all the comments to my posts, and we’ll see you all in the forums.
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Old 07-13-2003, 04:19 PM
MRBAA MRBAA is offline
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

David, not to say I told you so but...

I recently checked out Paradise again after a 6-month hiatus, playing last week (checked you out a bit in the 5-10 games). I won a little playing 2-4 he, a little more playing 2-4 stud (my better game). And after six days of playing a few hours daily, and being up 3bb/hour, I was disgusted with myself for wasting the time.

I don't think this can be a healthy thing for you, either, long term -- even though it sounds like you can squeeze out a living at it. I say this not because I know you, but because I know the game. For anyone with other options, I think it's best left as a (hopefully profitable) hobby.

There are one or two other posters here who have made the transition to playing for a living. They're not nearly as honest or articulate as you. Nor does it sound like they have as much else in their lives as you. Without naming names, I'll just say that their posts don't sound very happy after a few months of playing for a living.

If you're a Jack Straus, Phil Hellmuth, Doyle Brunson, Howard Lederer, Jennifer Harmon or the like -- a big gambler with the smarts for poker -- that's a different animal. For an intelligent normal person who can beat limit games, I think there are generally better lines of work.

Don't know if you've read Roy Cooke at all. He played mid limits for a living for many years and now plays part time while selling real estate. He loved the life as much as anyone, probably, and was about as good as anyone, probably. But he still couldn't make it without adding his business and his writing.

Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing your experiences. You certainly bring an unusual amount of perspective to the table.
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Old 07-13-2003, 04:37 PM
Punker Punker is offline
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

"So after 11 weeks I’m pretty safe in saying I can probably make $50,000 a year in US dollars, tax free."

I don't know if this is true. For one, you don't sound like you can handle a serious losing streak (your recent one was probably a one standard deviation streak) in terms of your bankroll or your emotional stability.

There's also still a feeling in your posts that comes across as you thinking of this being an adventure or challenge rather than a job. Go watch Rounders and listen to what Knish has to say.

I also think that this kind of work is hard on a family life, especially if you're working from home.

But if you think you can, go for it.
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Old 07-13-2003, 06:00 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Location: seattle!!!__ too sunny to be in a cardroom....ahhh, one more hand
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

"Go watch Rounders and listen to what Knish has to say."

or why not ask/listen to the grinders on here? they are much more real and lifelike than a movie character. even though the character was done well...

i dont think dave is seeing this as a glamorous, non grinding job. im not sure of his past stuff. but he got a taste of it in this experiment he's doing. i think he's noticed the effects of playing a little. he even mentions his emotional change later in his post. and how it has affected him. i think he sees some of the writing on the wall as to how the life may affect him longterm. which i think says volumes about himself to be able to recognize those signs. some people never even come close to doing that.

b
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Old 07-13-2003, 08:13 PM
lefty rosen lefty rosen is offline
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

The problem with online play is that bad beats come in waves and hot runs come in waves, and the human mind can't handle either. Now since David has a family and is well rounded with sufficient diversions, from poker when the cards are either running extremely hot or cold he can keep his mind distracted. If he was single I would worry more for him, because of the potential mania of cashing 1500 a week cheques(Canadian funds)and the vices that it can lead to. It's not a coincidence that many pro poker players have drug or alcohol addictions. Keep your run up, and keep posting I love this..........
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Old 07-13-2003, 08:37 PM
rigoletto rigoletto is offline
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

Weird that you have such a hard time at Paradise. I've found the games very profitable there for the last 4 weeks more fish then ever. I've been winning about 3 BB/hr on average (per table - of course I had to blow most of my profits playing 20/40 - I never learn). I believe you should be able to turn a profit here too (+ I miss you at the tables [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]).

I tried out Party 5-10 and dumped $1000 in about 50 hrs. Mostly by getting rivered and paying of with 2nd best hands. I can't seem to get used to the interface and have a harder time differentiating between the players (and I don't have the advantage of Pokerstat to help me).

I need to stay out of those tight games, or tighten right up.

I don't agree with this. I think the rocks at Paradise 5/10 are very predictable. You have to outplay them posttlop and that means not paying of with AQo. You know what they are calling with, take advantage of it and kill them on the low flops. Still the best option is of course to find the juicy games.

As allways I wish you the best of luck, but I think you should consider your poker advanture a hobby or maybe a part time job.
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Old 07-14-2003, 12:17 AM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

i dont have pokerstat but i thought it worked on all the popular sites. does some other tracker work?

just wondering...

b
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Old 07-14-2003, 03:30 AM
jasonHoldEm jasonHoldEm is offline
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

David,

As someone who is just starting out in poker I always love reading your posts because they give me an opportunity to see what is possible for someone who works hard at the game. It's also good because you don't pull any punches and are very open about how those big wins and big losses effect you. In other words you don't paint a picture of making fist-fulls of money everyday before breakfast...you keep it real and I thank you for that.

It's been very exciting to watch you develop as a player over these posts as well, and it teaches the important concept of constantly evaluating your play. Any player can profit from this concept, but many of us don't play enough to realize just how important it is and how quickly you can see the results. Watching you fine tune your game and reap the benefits has been amazing. It's inspired me to take a closer look at my game (and I only play 1/2).

A few observations;

1) Other players bad play will make me far more money than my fancy or brilliant plays.
2) The guy that leads with a bet on the turn after not betting previously, has a big hand.
3) Folding costs me nothing pre-flop. If it’s a close decision, I can’t go far wrong by folding. (I need to tape this to the computer)


IMHO this is best thing you've ever written, and I did tape it to my computer. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

One more thing, and I'm not in your shoes so I can't know exactly what your needs are, but I think you should forget about playing poker during your vacation. Go and have fun with your family and forget about your "job" for two weeks. If you were working a real job would you be dragging that along with you? Probably not. From your writing during your recent losing streak I think you could use a break...you'll come back refreshed and thinking more clearly; ready to take on those rocks at Paradise and beat up the softies at Party.

I wish you the best of luck, and I sincerely hope you'll consider keeping the column going.

-Jason
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Old 07-14-2003, 06:00 AM
rigoletto rigoletto is offline
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Default Re: Playing online for a living week 11

Pokerstat only works with Paradise. Pockertracker works (to my knowledge) with Paradise, Party and Stars. I've used Pokerstat for 1 year and I've tried out Pokertracker. In my opinion Pokerstat is the superior software (made by 2+2'er THWANG99). The fact that it automatically fills a table layout with the players you sit with, including key stats on these players and that it automatically request hand histories makes it very applicable while you play.

I'm not saying Pokertracker is a bad program, it's obvious advantage is the tracking of multiple sites and statwise you get the same information from the two. Tony (THWANG99) has previously mentioned that he would make versions for other sites and I hope he follows through!
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:36 AM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default question for dave...

since you will be taking a break from updates...

im wondering. since many of us have seen the growth in your game over the 11 weeks, how would you answer/analyze your 1st week's post? how would you respond to it if it was just posted today?

id be interested to hear your take on it.

ciao

b
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