Straddle Discussion

[Schneids]

Last night at Canterbury Jimmy the Greek (one of the worst poker players you can imagine) wanted to start straddle rounds in the 30 game. I immediately jump in and say "Jimmy if you want straddles, I'm right here with you doing it" or something like that (I'm also seated immediately on his left, so I figure if he does then I will and hopefully others follow). BK says "I will if everyone else does." Naturally, he already knows the two people between him and me don't straddle, however, its quite likely a few of the people seated after him will straddle.

So yeah, Jimmy straddles, I straddle, then it dies. Inside I'm angry at BK but wait to till after we're done to tell him:

"If Jimmy wants straddles, you straddle. He is here to gamble, he likes to gamble, and it's your job as a pro to provide him with that. So what if 1-3 other people at the table won't join in, a lot will and whatever EV you are giving up by being one of maybe 5 people at the table straddling is more than made up for by the fact Jimmy is enjoying himself, will come back more often, and will stay longer to play when you are in the game gambling it up with him."

So lets say you are straddling along with approximately 5 others. Is this insurmountable EV to overcome just to make sure a big donater is happy? BK thinks so, I don't (this coming from a guy who has played 63s for 4 bets PF and then dark bet a flop with it from his SB in the 30 game).

Perhaps some of the guys with lots of B&M experience and knowledge can chime in here. Thanks.

[Nomar]

based on what little knowledge I have of both of you, I thought you guys played that live 30-60, for fun, for a night out, to have some fun with friends, ect...

based on that, I would assume you should both be straddling and gambling it up, even with this slight -EV play you should both be favorites in the game.

[Boris]

I don't think you should straddle more than once a month.

As for keeping Jimmy happy, he will most probably gamble regardless of what you do. I'm not a big fan of "let's all kiss the live one's ass to make him stay." I don't think it works. Just don't be a total dick to him. It's easy to lie to people except when you're being condescending.

[Schneids]

I go there to play for fun while expecting/hoping to make a little money doing it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Boris]

BK should have straddled. Not to please Jimmy, but to escape being designated as a Nit.

[bicyclekick]

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based on what little knowledge I have of both of you, I thought you guys played that live 30-60, for fun, for a night out, to have some fun with friends, ect...


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While this is true (and it used to be super true...hence the getting in there for the 4 bet with 63s and betting the flop dark) it gets pretty old dropping a thousand or two every time you play.

I decided winning was more 'fun' than 'having fun' and losing if that makes sense. If I want to play like a donk I go play lower stakes, not to say that I don't ever donk it up at 30. Most of that donking is trying things out and just going with what I feel like doing...hence the spray with q3o I made the other week vs schneider that he posted.

I'm with boris, jimmy will gamble/spray it up regaurdless of if we straddle along. Although it might improve your standing with him a touch, it doesn't overly matter imo.

[Schneids]

He's one of the nicest guys in the building too. I have no reason to be condescending to him, nor pander to him at the table. I'm just saying you get the EV back from your straddles by keeping him there as long as possible, which helps by having him like you, which means you straddle and encourage others to straddle if that is what he wants.

Like, for instance last night he rebought twice. I know there are times I've played with him when the game is nitty and he busts off his first buy in and he leaves because he's gotten crabby and isn't enjoying himself.

Plus since as I said, he's a great guy so even with the fact I'm going there with "fun" in mind too, it's fun AND profitable having him at the table.

Which is why I think BK is horribly wrong and made this post [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[bicyclekick]

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BK should have straddled. Not to please Jimmy, but to escape being designated as a Nit.

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If you asked the top 50 players (and by top i mean the players who play the 30/60 the most) I bet you would get 0 responses that I'm a nit. I sit down at the table and people often get excited about the action that just sat down...even though they know I play pretty well. They just know things are going to get a little more interesting.

It's lessoning (if that's even a word), but you'd probably still get about half that think I'm at least a boarderline maniac. They don't get the whole selectively agressive business.

Schneids,


First of all, I hope this guys name isn't jimmy the greek, because if it is, there is always the remote possibility that he could read this and quit playing with you or decide to become some sort of ultra rock. I really hope you disguised his name.

Secondly, if he wants to straddle, straddle with him. Players like this enjoy gambling more than they enjoy poker, and straddling is a way for them to get goofy and play some weird hands, and it allows them to play more hands than they normally would. Players like these are the ones that support a pros income in B&M rooms, and where I play we try to make honest friends with them and make them feel as comfortable as possible, but not to the point of it being on a false pretense. Try and be social with them, and keep them around as long as possible. If they start to feel like they're playing with a bunch of rocks and hard ass poker players who dont do anything but grind, they WILL find someone else to play with. But here's something to really remember when dealing with these guys: If you view them as strictly a source of income, they wont be around very long. There's nothing wrong with beating them in pots, but dont get greedy, either. I've seen guys give action to these kind of players as sort of an investment in their future so to speak, with little to nothing as far as cards were concerned.





Tex

[threeonefour]

live straddle or dead straddle?

i would definitely do the live straddle. dead straddle i would do probably only if 80% or more of the table also participates.

[censored]ing nits...