Encouraging your table to stall in a tourney (long....as usual)

[MicroBob]

Think it's cheating?
I certainly do. (referring specifically to encouraging the others at your table to do it).


Perhaps this is a bit petty...but I have reported similar 'violators' to support at stars and party and/or told the offenders that 'encouraging the whole table to stall is not allowed' in previous situations.

It just happened that this situation was particularly egregious...AND I also happened to lose on the bubble.

Would I have made it if there hadn't been the open-discussion/collusion on the other tables? Probably wouldn't have made much difference.
But I still don't think those who actively try to get their whole table to 'team-up' deserve to win either.


=====================


Hello -

I played in the CPC special qualifier ($90/9) on
Friday night and there was some conspiring that took
place on table #2 when it got down to 2 tables
remaining.

It took place with 13 and then with 12 players left.


The top 11 players received seats to the $800+50
Canadian special.

One player named xxxxxxxxx was telling the rest of the
table to stall as long as possible on each hand.

Later, xxxxxxxxx was telling the table not to play any
hands or take any risks because one of the players on
the other table had a short-stack and would be in the
BB in two hands (this player on the other table
happened to be me).


Also, a player named yyyyyyyy made a raise, and then
while the other players were deciding, he announced to
the table that he was holding AA and he didn't want
anyone on his table to get knocked-out.
After everyone folded he indeed showed them AA.



I think it is a serious breach of the rules for a
player to tell the table what he is holding so that
all of his new 'friends' at the table can avoid being
eliminated.

xxxxxxxxx's violations were more egregious though
because he/she was encouraging the whole table to
stall because they had 7 players left on their table
while the other one had only 6. xxxxxxxxx was
specifically telling the table that they had a big
advantage by stalling because they had one more player
than the other table.


Also, please note that for some reason the party
software did not implement hand-for-hand play with 2
tables remaining even though it clearly should have.


Once the players on table 2 figured out that there was
no hand-for-hand play being used and at that point they started talking about stalling and they got really out-of-hand about it.


I think I am deserving of an $800+50 seat to the Canadian
Special (Saturday at 2pm) as I was the victim of an
entire table openly conspiring against me.
It was a wholly unfair situation (and I was unable to
ask them to stop conspiring because observer-chat was
not allowed).

Those who play FAIRLY and WITHIN the rules are clearly
more deserving of the seat than those who openly cheat
and conspire at the tables and in the chat-boxes.

I was trying to play a fair game...but some of the
other players were not.


Please forward this to the appropriate department and
get back to me regarding what you plan to do in this
matter.


Thank you,
Bob xxxxx




===========================



Dear Bob,

Thank you for contacting us with your concern.

We would like to thank you for bringing to our notice the inappropriate
conversation in the game ID *CPC Special Qualifier* .

This is definitely not acceptable, the chat feature is provided for
players as a ýadd oný feature to better experience the action at our
tables, but any misuse of this feature is not permitted.

We discourage such activities on our site and hence have him requested
him an explanation for the same. We have also issued him a warning and
have further put a block on his chat privileges.

However, we have also noticed that players on your table too were
trying to prolong the game. During the hands #zzzzzzzzzz and #zzzzzzzzzzz
players have been trying to gain advantage.

We have flagged the accounts and would be monitoring them on a regular
basis.

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you
with your account related questions and suggestions.

Sincerely,

Natalie Thomas
Investigations Team



===========================================



Please more fully consider the situation.


This is far more than just the fact that 'both tables
were engaged in some kinds of stalling'.

If a player on their own does this then that is one
thing.

But if a player is using the chat-feature to encourage
everyone at the table to do this then that is clearly
cheating and collusion.

The problem here is not the actual stalling itself.
The problem is that on the other table there was open
and inappropriate discussion about it.

Then a player told the table what hole-cards he was
holding in efforts to help everyone on his table win
the seat.

Then a different player told the whole table not to
play any hands because there was a short-stack that
would be in the BB soon.

Players are not allowed to discuss such things like
"hey everybody. don't play any hands."
It's entirely possible that someone would have played
a hand of their own volition...but then the idea of
the whole table conspiring to fold around to the
blinds came into play.



The 2nd table had players actively trying to get
everyone to 'team-up' and stall.


Thank you,
Bob xxxxxxx

[MicroBob]

Well...at least they are responding quickly.

But we're going backwards here as this particular rep doesn't seem to understand what I'm talking about.


-----------------------------



Dear Bob,
>
> Thank you for contacting us at PartyPoker.com
>
> We understand your concern regarding players that
> intentionally stall in
> tournaments. This is an area that we are currently
> working on improving.
>
> There are a few things that we have done to minimize
> the stalling; 1) reduced the time to act (earlier it
> was 40 seconds), 2) implemented hand for hand game
> play so that the players do not gain advantage by
> stalling since all the hands begin and end at the
> same time, 3) Reduced the time to act even further
> and installed a "time
> bank" where players use their time more effectively.
>
>
> With that said, even after we implement as many
> things as possible to help curb it, there will
> always be an amount of time that is given to each
> player to act. Each player is allowed to take the
> time that they feel they need.
>
> We understand that it can be frustrating when
> players elect to use their
> time each hand, but it is something that is afforded
> each player and they can rightfully use that time.
>
> Taking extra time is not colluding, it is a strategy
> that some players feel
> benefits them, when in fact it actually hurts the
> same players that are
> doing it. All players have the same opportunities
> when it comes to take
> extra time.
>
> I understand that this is not the answer that you
> are looking for, but you must realize the position
> that we are in. We can ask players to speed up
> their play (and we do), but our hands are tied when
> it comes to punishing any player for doing something
> that they are entitled to do.
>
> Contact us anytime, we are available around the
> clock to assist you with your account related
> questions and suggestions.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Akshay
> Investigations Team



=====================================


My complaint is not regarding the fact that players
were stalling.
My complaint is that there were players who were
openly and actively telling everyone else at their
table how to play.

Your response indicates that you do not understand the
problem I am describing.

It is collusion if a player is telling the rest of the
table how to play.
It is also collusion if a player tells the table that
everyone should fold because he is holding AA.
It is also collusion if a player tells the table not
to play any hands or take any risks so that they can
all be winners.


The stalling itself was not the problem.
The fact that multiple players were openly discussing
it in the chat-box was the problem.


Again, I ask that the partypoker investigators fully
consider the situation of the players at the table
telling each other how to play and openly trying to
get their whole table to advance.

There is no question that this is collusion and
cheating.



Thank you.

[rusty JEDI]

This is why pokersites need support people who have a clue about the game of poker. Maybe a PM to Mike O'malley would help.

rJ

[pzhon]

Yes, this is pretty clear collusion, and disgusting. Imagine what penalties would be invoked if this were done in a live casino! I think any player who tries to get the table to stall or announces his hand to influence the action should be disqualified.

It should be obvious that banning these tactics is in the interest of the poker sites, but they seem not to care. I've stopped playing tournaments on multiple sites after receiving unsatisfactory responses from support about players openly colluding.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, a player named yyyyyyyy made a raise, and then
while the other players were deciding, he announced to
the table that he was holding AA and he didn't want
anyone on his table to get knocked-out.
After everyone folded he indeed showed them AA.


[/ QUOTE ]
This appears to fit the description of soft-playing in Party's tournament rules:
<ul type="square">
18. There should be no soft playing during Tournaments. Soft playing is to not bet your hand to the fullest extent when playing against someone (usually friends and/or family). It goes against the spirit of the game and is considered cheating in some instances. [/list]

[4thstreetpete]

looks like you have a case here. You've definately been wronged and I wouldn't stop pestering them until I got a satisfactory resolution.
Make sure the rep forwards it to his/her supervisor because he/she is clearly clueless here.
Post us an update.

[SCfuji]

wow that sucks man. if party wont do anything then the next time you have a big stack and are in the position to [censored] somebody over just do it. they will most likely do it to you. [censored] em. [censored] em all mbob.

[MicroBob]

Final part of the conversation with them before I head for bed (fwiw - I could have sworn the guy showed the table his AA...and I think it's possible that this rep looked up the wrong hand-number to look at his hole-cards....but I couldn't swear to it):




--- alerts@partypoker.com wrote:

&gt; Dear Bob,
&gt;
&gt; Thank you for contacting us at PartyPoker.com.
&gt;
&gt; In regards to your email, at the outset, we would
&gt; like to inform you that all our Multi table
&gt; tournaments have a special feature called
&gt; Hand-For-Hand, which ensures that all the tables
&gt; play the same number of hands. In the CPC Special
&gt; Qualifier, Hand-For-Hand was available.
&gt; Please click on the below link for more details on
&gt; the Hand-For-Hand.
&gt;
&gt; http://www.partypoker.com/games/tour...e.html#latereg
&gt;
&gt; Regarding your query on collusion, we would like to
&gt; inform you that we have gone through their chat
&gt; messages and compared it with their hole cards and
&gt; it indicates there is no collusion. And as far as
&gt; the player discussing his holes cards (AA) in one of
&gt; the hands is concerned he did not have them he was
&gt; just coffee housing.
&gt;
&gt; Contact us anytime, we are available around the
&gt; clock to assist you with your account related
&gt; questions and suggestions.
&gt;
&gt; Sincerely,
&gt;
&gt; Akshay
&gt; Investigations Team
&gt; alerts@partypoker.com



=============================


Hello -

It is clear that you are still not understanding what I am saying.
Please forward this situation to a supervisor or to another representative if you would.


As I mentioned in the original e-mail, hand-for-hand play was NOT in effect when there were 13 players remaining.
Clearly there SHOULD have been hand-for-hand play. But it was not in effect for some reason.


I am not going to bother re-explaining my position on this as I think I have already made it very clear.

Please forward this to someone who understands the situation and is willing to read this entire e-mail conversation that I have had with 2 different reps in it's entirety.



To whomever takes a look at this situation next,

Please observe that the first party-rep to look at this (natalie Thomas) clearly said this was not acceptable and that the misuse of the chat-feature is not permitted.

If they were deemed to be cheating/colluding with others at the table then those effected by the collusion are deserving of some compensation.

I am the player that did NOT encourage anyone at my table to play in a certain manner.

Other players clearly were colluding.


Thank you,
Bob xxxxxxxxxxx

[Sniper]

Bob... did you review your hand history file?

Edit out the game play (except for the AA hand) and send them the conversation at the table, it may have more impact.

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]

Regarding your query on collusion, we would like to
&gt; inform you that we have gone through their chat
&gt; messages and compared it with their hole cards and
&gt; it indicates there is no collusion. And as far as
&gt; the player discussing his holes cards (AA) in one of
&gt; the hands is concerned he did not have them he was
&gt; just coffee housing.
&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]

bob, you dont seem to understand, he was just coffee housing.

[pokergrader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Regarding your query on collusion, we would like to
&gt; inform you that we have gone through their chat
&gt; messages and compared it with their hole cards and
&gt; it indicates there is no collusion. And as far as
&gt; the player discussing his holes cards (AA) in one of
&gt; the hands is concerned he did not have them he was
&gt; just coffee housing.
&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]

bob, you dont seem to understand, he was just coffee housing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Enjoy!