My 999th Post

This is my favourite forum, so I decided to make this post here. Special thanks to bernie and AaronBrown for making my stay enjoyable.

“2+2 is the brain food that turns gills into wings.”

Super System 1: $50
Super System 2: $10
Small Stakes Holdem: $35
Current BR: $2000
2+2: Priceless.

For everyone else, there’s ESPN.



My story

I played dealer's choice with my friends for about 2 years before I moved away to university. The only game I could get into here was an exclusively holdem game (2002), which was very unfamiliar to me. I hadn't watched Rounders, and I knew only a little bit about how the game played out. It was a $5 buy-in NL game with $0.25 antes. After 2 months of up-and-down swings, I watched Rounders, got convinced that there was strategy involved, and started looking at Holdem strategy websites on the internet.

After reading a whole bunch of basic strategy, I bought Super/System and read through that. I didn't really understand it. The next scheduled game we played was twice the number of players as normal (normal = 5 players). I decided to "borrow" $15 from my dad and see what I could do in this game. I ran well in that session and netted over $100. I quietly put that $15 back in my dad's wallet and looked at what was now my poker bankroll. I continued playing in these $0.25 ante games until they migrated to a blind structure and became $20 NL. At the same time, I opened an account on Royal Vegas Poker and got my free $10. I played the $0.25-$0.50 NL games way under rolled, but ran well and had about $200, of which I then dumped most to a friend and added it to my live game BR. After continuing to work what was left up to $200 again, I started my Neteller account and cashed a lot of it, leaving myself under rolled again, but playing $0.10-$0.20 fixed limit games and $5 SNGs. My total BR was about $500 when I played my first B&M game shortly after my 19th birthday and lost $200 at $2-$5 fixed (!).

I ran well playing $5-$10 fixed limit and many $0.25-$0.50 NL games, and in a couple sessions and built myself up to over $1000. I must have been running extremely well, as I surely had very little idea of what I was doing. I read HFAP without understanding much it, along with Helmuth's very beginner book. I'd been sitting on most of this money, sticking to recreational NL and low-limit games online, with the specific intention of never going bust. After doing this for approximately 16 months, I read Inside the Poker Mind, Middle Limit Holdem, and Poker Essays. These were all great theory book and I tried to implement everything I learned, very cautiously. Only now am I beginning to feel more comfortable with my decisions in live low-limit games. I just started reading SSHE, and started on this forum about 3 months ago.

My main fascination with poker was partly the psychology, but it was mostly the theory behind it being a beatable game. I've always been very risk-averse and have never been very open to gambling. I've played about 2 hours total of table games in my life and even that was only to experience all of my Vegas vacation. Most of the time I've dedicated to poker was tied up with reading articles on the internet and not with playing actual games. I wanted to prove to myself that poker was a beatable game before actually trying to beat it. Most of what I read had less to do with actual strategy than it did with the mindset behind playing a winning game.

Every time I give advice to a new or budding player, I try my hardest to assess her reasons for playing and her ability to control her emotions, as this is exactly where I started out when playing poker. I'm sure my logic and math skills have helped me immensely along the road of development (it is much easier to become emotionally detached when using logic to assess a situation).

I lost nothing before I started becoming a winning player. Actually, I have no proof that I am indeed a winning player over the long run. Yes, I am "up" since I started my BR and have only played seriously since then, but I am almost certain that I got lucky in my early stages of playing (or maybe the games in which I played were actually so loose and terrible that my weak-tight style was actually quite profitable).

I played for about 20 minutes before seeing positive results. Once again, I probably ran luckier than most. However, I am continually trying to gain a deeper understanding of the game, as I know that you can only win over the long run by making correct decisions. The results take care of themselves, and I truly believe this.

I am not a gambler by nature, but poker is indeed a gambling game. I was never a gambler before I discovered that some games are actually +EV (provided you play such games correctly). The more I play, the less risk-averse I am becoming (of course, a growing BR has helped with this as well).

I don't play professionally, and I don't think I could. But nevertheless, I'm still obsessed with making the correct decisions all the time.


When to leave the game

Playing any predetermined amount is a bad idea, although playing x number of hands will get you away from associating your play with winning and losing sessions.

Consider the fact that quitting when you are ahead will not stop you from losing if you are a bad player, and may stop you from winning if you are a good player. (Caro)

Learn to be satisfied with a loss if you were playing well the entire time. If you are ever playing specifically to get back to even, then you are 100% not playing well. Try re-evaluating the game after you are down 30BB. The moment you hit this point, write down why you should keep playing. Take a 2 minute break, then come back and read what you wrote. It will usually sound like a stretch. If you are up 30BB in a single session, write down why you want to leave, take a 2 minute break and read it over. If you are looking for feedback, then post your answers on here (or if you're a little embarrassed, feel free to PM me, and I'll proofread them).

Learning when and when not to leave a game is a really hard question over which tons of posters debate regularly. Here's my take on why it's so touchy:

Over a short period of time (I'm talking about one or two hours or so - the point at which you may start wondering how long your session will be), luck plays a big roll in how your stack grows/shrinks. This will affect you psychologically, especially if you are one of those many players that cannot keep their feelings in check. Although a period this brief is governed more by luck than by skill, you will feel you are playing better if winning, feel you are playing worse if losing, or feel nothing at all if you aren't experiencing much variation. If you are one of the few that can keep themselves under control, you will generally be entering every hand with the mentality that you are break even as the cards come out. The greater you deviate from your psychological norm, the harder it is to come back to a clear-thinking mindset. This is where the debate starts.

The truth and one's impression of the truth differ greatly from each other. The truth is only based on how you are playing NOW and how your opponents are playing NOW. This truth is based on how you have been playing since you started, how your opponents have been playing since THEY started, and how your opponents have been playing since YOU started. The problem is that this is all very difficult to assess, and furthermore, it is based on the cards that everyone has been receiving, which is a concrete and uncontrollable factor. The truth is simple... in theory.

Because it is so difficult to assess the actual truth, most people tend to measure it as a function of size of their stack relative to the initial size of their stack: growth = success, shrinkage = failure. This also applies to one's impression of one's opponents: growth = shark, shrinkage = fish (a little extreme). The less psychologically stable you are (in terms of poker, and I would advise you seek help if this is true in other parts of your life), the more emphasis you will put on your and your opponents' current fluctuations, and the farther you are from being able to see the truth. If you can think with a clear mind, you will be able to separate stack sizes from quality of play. You will be able to correctly judge how "good" a game is and how "well" you are playing. This is all after a very short (one or two hour) session, where luck plays a huge roll on the size of your stack.

The reason that there is so much debate is that there is such a huge gap between the truth and one's perception of the truth. After every hand comes to an end, you will be playing differently, and your opponents will be playing differently, all for a very complicated set of reasons. The "quality" of the game is measured not in stack sizes or runs of cards (which are the only concrete pieces of evidence available), but in how you and your opponents are playing and reacting to concrete events.

The only reason you should ever leave is game is because of the quality, not because of the concretes.


Money

There are only two things you can do with money:
- buy stuff ("spending"); or
- use it to get more money ("investing").


Spending has no monetary benefit, while investing does. If you measure life only in terms of money (which is hard not to do because everything costs money and your job earns you money), then spending makes absolutely no sense. Spending money may not earn you more money, but it earns you other non-tangibles, which some people consider to be better than cold hard cash.

A question you may want to ask yourself is what you plan to do with your money over the course of your life. By the time you die, you will have had to spend 100% of your money (food, entertainment, wedding, funeral, supplying inheritance, if you are so inclined). A big problem for a lot of people is that they can never be sure of how much money they'll have at any one point, so it makes sense to have some plan to combine spending with investing. This is otherwise known as "budgeting". If you're anything like me, you have trouble making "impulse" purchases because you're not sure if you'll need that money to make a mortgage payment or to purchase a kidney on the black market. This doesn't mean you hate money; it just means that you're very unsure of what to do with it, given that you DO have to do SOMETHING with it. My best advice for you is to set up a budget, where lots of your money goes into investments/ rainy day fund, and you allocate the remainder for an assortment of expenses including, but not limited to, groceries, eating out, entertainment, clothing, gifts, and home decor. Once you separate money into "smart" money (investments) and "spending" money, you will have much less of a problem spending money on things. This doesn't mean you have to buy the most expensive dinners and a brand new homemade Swedish meatball maker, but it will afford you some luxury, and you may find some comfort in knowing that the money you are spending is money that's been set aside for that specific purpose.

To bring this all back to poker, this is why I've separated poker money from life money. I've had friends who said they can't play for the rest of the month because they need to pay off their credit card bill or make a tuition payment. Me? I dedicate most of my poker earnings back into keeping a healthy bankroll. This is called investing.


Getting raised on the turn

EVERY time you facing a re-raise, re-evaluate the texture of the board, the tendencies of your player, and the quality of your own hand. Don't do it only when you might be beat. Do it even when you are ahead. Do it every time. "What can he possibly be holding?"


My first big score

My first day at the fair, I showed up in the early afternoon and was lucky enough to get on to a new table with fellow 2+2er, Borno. Turns out the dealer they brought over was a blackjack dealer and had never dealt poker before. With the pit boss standing over his shoulder and making sure everything was all right, "Roger" was dealing at a rate of about 10 hands per hour. I was dying for a table change. Almost every player had to speak up at every pot to tell him where to push it and how to rake to take. Roger made no tips.

Our next dealer was an improvement. He dealt much faster and never got involved with discussion at the table. I would have complimented him, but he was deaf. After about 3 hours, Borno, who had been sitting across the table from me, gets a seat change directly to my left. Good for him to spot his advantage. Having him next to me is so distracting that I'm just getting crazy at the table. I scoop a couple big pots, only to drop it back to rivers in my last round. I fold UTG and leave to catch the bus home. I enjoy counting my chips ... dead even after 6 hours of play.

After a 4-day hiatus, I ditch out on work early Thursday afternoon to return to the scene of the crime. A modest hour-long wait finds me at a juicy table with a few young players and lots of laughter. After an hour or so, I'm already up 30BB and I can't be stopped. I was hitting everything in sight and everybody knew it. The "lucky hand" of the night was Q4, and my buddy and I kept promoting it. In fact, the player 2 seats to my right calls down to the river after hitting top pair on the flop, just because it was Q4! To top it off, my friend raises all-in UTG+1 with Q4 to the same effect. He doesn't backdoor his wheel and I have to leave this juicy table.

On my way back home from Toronto, I have my roommate take an alternate route home and leave me at the gates of the fair on its last day in town. This table was terrific. I happen to be at the tight end of the table while the other half is seeing almost every river, desperate to receive chips. One player normally plays twice these limits, but since that game isn't running, he's raising virtually every pot preflop to make it seem like more his style. Add in 7 more players to every flop who don't respect his raises anymore. Let sit for two hours with high pairs and big suited cards and cash me out 100BB at the end of the night. This luckbox cannot be stopped. Seeing as how the fair is located in the dirtiest part of town and I still have to catch the bus home, I get out of there quick, hide some bills in my sock, and try to look as unhappy as possible while walking towards the bus stop. I say nothing about the bling to my girlfriend while on the phone during the ride. It's a new relationship and she only knows I play poker as a hobby. I later find out "hobby" = "gamble".

I get home safely and ask my roommate to accompany me to the bank. I show him the reason as his girlfriend steps through the door with her jaw dropped. My other roommate decides to make the trek. Not even 2 minutes from my house, my girlfriend calls. I explain to her that I'm on my way to the bank. "Making a LARGE deposit?? How come you didn't tell me??" I defer the conversation until I get to her house 20 minutes later. She wants me to spend the money instead of wasting it on more poker. I attempt to explain that I'm trying to move up limits and that this money is an investment. I'll have to work on this one.

In any case, I can't wait until the fair returns in 2006.

2+2

This place and all its inhabitants have a bottomless well of information to offer. I have learned so much, and hope to continue to perfect my game and psyche.

Thank you.

-TKO

[mosquito]

Thank you for the post. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but there is much in there that is wonderful (and a few things to disagree with). Thanks for taking the time!

[beekeeper]

[ QUOTE ]

Every time I give advice to a new or budding player, I try my hardest to assess her reasons for playing and her ability to control her emotions, as this is exactly where I started out when playing poker. I'm sure my logic and math skills have helped me immensely along the road of development (it is much easier to become emotionally detached when using logic to assess a situation).


-TKO

[/ QUOTE ]

You've given me a lot of thoughtful advice. Thanks.

[pyedog]

Good post TKO. I've enjoyed your posts in B&M and Psych.

I mainly lurk (instead of posting) when I'm supposed to be working but I enjoy readying all the thoughts from great posters here.

Also I think my hold em path has been pretty similar to yours so far. I've had a couple big scores at live limit tables as well as some other up and down results. Other than that I've grinded out a pretty solid bankroll at micro stakes online, mainly through bonus whoring.

Anyways I have yet to spend any of my poker winnings and I like your idea of keeping them to build a bankroll so I can keep moving up (as long as I can still keep spotting the fish at least). Your advice on when to consider quitting a game is great too, and too often I have been guilty of thinking that I want to win "my money" back at a table.

Good post and good luck.

[felix83]

Great post man, well put. I especially like the mention of keeping poker money separate from "life" money. Rec players like us have the luxury of doing so, and I would recommend it in a heartbeat for anyone that isn't fully pro. The mind rests easier and, I think, leads to better decisions on and off the table.

[bernie]

Right on.

This is one of my favorite forums also.

Have a good one.

b

[Borno]

TKO, great post. Lots of thought put into it clearly. I haven't been lurking much recently., but I'm glad I did a search for this one. A lot of what's in here is what we regularly talk about. As in most cases regarding our meta-game discussions - you're right.

There is so much in here that is valuable for any part-time player to read and understand.. and you're story is fun and interesting.

Good luck with your poker playing over the years to come.

In regards to the girlfriend "problem" - I've battled with this. You know all about my thousands in swings on bonuses and poker and going out of my limits, etc. etc. (discipline = no gooot)

I just make sure I tell her everything. It stresses her out, but its theraputic for me and keeps me honest with myself. She understands I make money in the end and its very fun / interesting for me.

You have music to keep your mind busy - I really have no other major hobby (unless playing counterstrike and watching Ali G counts)

As hobby DOES = gamble its important to play within your limits and even sometimes below your limits if your in a tight spot with your roll.

See you soon,

Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay Borno