bad beat hand, but questionable play...need help

squeek12 · #1 12-21-2005, 05:02 AM

Alright, I posted this in the BBV forum and got flamed. Villians are two unknowns

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 21 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Qh 7d (three of a kind, queens).
UTG has 4d 2s (straight, six high).
Hero has Jh Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 21 BB. 

First of all, should I call preflop with three limpers before me? The controversy is about my turn play though. My reasoning for just calling is that I capped the flop and SB still bets into me, which told me that he either was full on the flop, just filled up, or has a better kicker than mine. The OB just calling the flop 3-bet also had me a bit concerned.

Most wanted me to raise the turn, which I understand, but what happens if I do and get 3-bet. This whole hand is why I tend to just chunk QJo in the muck preflop, but my VPIP is only about 14.5 and I've been looking for ways to get it up to about 16-17.

SNOWBALL138 · #2 12-21-2005, 05:43 AM

I fold preflop here, because there are too many players left to act behind me, and I don't want to end up paying two bets to see a flop. Also, its unlikely that you're going to have the button after the flop.

Flop:
You have a good hand, so jamming the pot looks good here.

Turn:
Raising looks like the best play here. Your hand might not be best, but you only need to have 25% equity for your raise to be for value. You have a lot more than that.

River: unless there are five queens in the deck, you are beaten and need to fold. I have no idea what your opponents have but someone has to have trip queens beaten. Its too hard to figure out a situation where your hand is good here.

Pog0 · #3 12-21-2005, 06:18 AM

Raising the turn is good because the other two players may have flushdraws, however, after SB's turn lead, you can't think you're ahead often here.

Like snowball said, on the river, both those players can't have a queen. The only draws that got there were for 24 and 47 and neither of those make sense to play, especially on the flop unless they're both [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]s. I'd expect UTG to show a slowplayed underfull after this raise.

Fold preflop.
Cap flop or call 3bet and raise turn.
River... I'm not sure yet. You're easily at least calling one bet here.