What You Protestants Don't Seem to Get

The Flying Spagetti Monster is the only true GOD.

If you have been touched by his holy appendage you would know. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[BluffTHIS!]

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Truth is a Man. Not whatever your understanding thinks it is.

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Unless you claim that He speaks to you directly, then your only knowledge of Jesus is the "understanding" of Him which you get from scripture, and from the interpretations of that scripture put forth by the denomination you belong to. And since the protestant reformation has spawned so many differing interpretations of what God said, how can you know which is correct?

[ajmargarine]

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Truth is a Man. Not whatever your understanding thinks it is.

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Unless you claim that He speaks to you directly, then your only knowledge of Jesus is the "understanding" of Him which you get from scripture, and from the interpretations of that scripture put forth by the denomination you belong to. And since the protestant reformation has spawned so many differing interpretations of what God said, how can you know which is correct?

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Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

[BluffTHIS!]

If you can't respond in your own words to the points others make in debate, and resort to only quoting scripture, then you only make the point of my original post in this thread and don't get it. Good luck trying to persuade non-believers to believe by such methods when they aren't willing to start with the premise that the bible is true. And if you are one of those "name it and claim it" types then you really are a dolt.

[NotReady]

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How would you know the difference between a sound and unsound argument if you are not certain about the initial axiom?
Likewise, how can you be certain of religious belief without an initial objective authority claiming infallibility in all matters of Faith?


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There's a difference between certainty and knowledge. There's a difference between subjective certainty and objective certainty. There's a difference between revealed certainty and the claimed certainty of human reason and authority.

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You seem to maintain that there is no such thing as objective truth which man can compare his beliefs to, to know if he is right or wrong.


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You seem to be taking lessons from Bluff on how to make unwarranted inferences.

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Any religion which does not claim 100% infallible authority on matters of Faith is garbage and has no reason to exist.


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This is one of those questionable axioms to which you can then apply perfect logic and derive all kinds of unsound conclusions.

[ajmargarine]

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If you can't respond in your own words to the points others make in debate, and resort to only quoting scripture, then you only make the point of my original post in this thread and don't get it. Good luck trying to persuade non-believers to believe by such methods when they aren't willing to start with the premise that the bible is true.

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Well, your questions that I responded to, Does Jesus talk to you and How can you really know what the truth is, are easily answered by scripture. My experience lines up with that which I mention; thereby, I thought I adequately answered your questions. I quoted a few passages without commentary because you seem to take issue when people "interpret" scripture for themselves. As you believe yourself to be a believer, I left it up to you to interpret.

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And if you are one of those "name it and claim it" types then you really are a dolt.

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*sigh*

[baggins]

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but, at the same time, it's not MY job to convince anyone.

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"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Matt. 28:19-20

So it is YOUR job after all. And if you try to convince them to take the gospel on faith, but also that the beliefs of the particular denomination you belong to are not 100% correct, then your chances for success are lessened, which is the point of my original post in this thread.

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since when did the command to make disciples (i.e. teach and lead those willing to follow) come to mean 'convince logically with 100% authority on all matters of spiritual mystery'?

i don't agree. i don't think that command means i have to argue and logically convince people to become christians. you don't come to Faith because you lose a logical argument about faith.

[BluffTHIS!]

And just how are you going to be successful in making disciples of thinking non-believers if you can't at least tell them you possess 100% certainty about the correct interpretation of scripture and doctrine? You have already asked them to take the gospel on faith and then are saying you aren't 100% sure about its correct interpretation if you say all christian denominations have doctrines that are faulty to some degree. The only way out of that is to maintain that precisely one of them which you belong to is 100% correct.

[DVaut1]

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The Flying Spagetti Monster is the only true GOD.

If you have been touched by his holy appendage you would know.

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Hail, fellow Pastafarian!



May His eternal grace ever shine upon us. Pray that his Noodly Appendage will touch all lost souls,

Ramen.

[Peter666]

"There's a difference between certainty and knowledge. There's a difference between subjective certainty and objective certainty. There's a difference between revealed certainty and the claimed certainty of human reason and authority."

And when revealed certainty gives the Church objective certainty in matters of Faith and Morals through its legitimate use of authority, the problem is solved. That is precisely what God did with the Catholic Church.

Without objective certainty, which is the direct intervention by God in the Holy Spirit, a religion is merely a philosophical belief that cannot assure us of supernatural beliefs with any guarantees. That makes it absolutely useless, as all religions except Catholicism are.