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  #11  
Old 08-29-2005, 06:58 PM
shejk shejk is offline
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Default Re: Results

I'm the villain in this hand - bb.

I didn't give you credit for as much as jj - as you said I thought you had a decently wide range. Since I figured the sb was pretty tilted, I figured my aqs was probably easily good enough to call his push. My main error here in my opinion was the very small reraise. I am duly ashamed, but I suppose that helped in folding you out, no?
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2005, 07:16 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Results

Unless you were thinking on a very high level and knew that the OP was a very good player and that he would read your smooth call as a ton of strength, you should push over the SB's push.
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2005, 08:38 PM
shejk shejk is offline
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Default Re: Results

How is that? I mean, this isn't very high level is it? I'm coming from a sng/mtt background, and my impression is that this is a rather basic level. High level against a high level opponent would be pushing imo. If I was confident that he perceived me as a high level thinker, while I was confident that he was that as well, I'd probably push instead.

Also, most likely hand for that call of my reraise is a pocket, no? I mean, the only hand he'd play non-pocketed is AK. If he has pockets, it probably isn't aces or kings. All of these hands I'm happy to see a flop against, cause I can fold them out (especially since I'm acting first).

I really can't see that this is a clear push.
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2005, 08:47 PM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
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Default Re: Results

Nothing overcalls the SB's all-in and then folds on the flop. Do you really think anybody would call $95 preflop and then fold for $125 into a $285 pot?
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2005, 09:16 PM
shejk shejk is offline
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Default Re: Results

well you've got your numbers wrong, no? It's more like closing the action for ~60 into a ~200 pot.

JJ flops an overpair or a set like 55-60% of the time to take the specific example.

I can certainly see flops where I'd be inclined to fold. Maybe they're too far fetched to make a difference?

I don't know, my main concern is that I feel I convey more strength by calling than by pushing.
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2005, 09:23 PM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
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Default Re: Results

For exact numbers, here's the scenario. Shorty had $93.34, I only had $200 and you had me covered (my mistake in the OP). There are zero hands that should call $93.34 (I had put in $30 already so it would'v been $63.34 more) and then fold on any flop for $106.66 more into a $280.02 (less rake) pot. Putting in half your stack preflop and then folding for the other half on the flop is terrible.
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  #17  
Old 08-29-2005, 09:59 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Results

[ QUOTE ]
my main concern is that I feel I convey more strength by calling than by pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly my point. This is a true statement. But against a typical donkey, they will not realise this. Against them, you actually convey more strength by pushing. But against a good player, such as the OP, you are right. Calling shows more strength and it worked exactly as planned here. I assume you were calling if OP pushed?
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2005, 06:40 AM
emil3000 emil3000 is offline
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Default Re: Results

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my main concern is that I feel I convey more strength by calling than by pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly my point. This is a true statement. But against a typical donkey, they will not realise this. Against them, you actually convey more strength by pushing. But against a good player, such as the OP, you are right. Calling shows more strength and it worked exactly as planned here. I assume you were calling if OP pushed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Shejk knew Ghazban was 2+2 tho. I know cause I AIM:ed it to him couple of hands earlier.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2005, 07:07 AM
fuzzbox fuzzbox is offline
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Default Re: JJ interesting preflop situation

I think I lay JJ down here. If I was BB with AA/KK and probably QQ then I would likely just call SB, and hope to drag you along, figuring the rest of the money goes in on just about any flop.

he might reraise you with a lot of hands, but does he get 95 in the middle with every expectation that will you call/push, with a lot of hands ?
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2005, 07:35 AM
shejk shejk is offline
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Default Re: Results

Yep I'm definately calling a push from OP.

As already stated, OP didn't play like a donkey, and I knew he was a 2+2er.
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