Screen name change (fatskiis) And some long (LC) expatiation

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]
ou aren't gaining any overlay from AJo in a 3-way pot by capping preflop. Especially when the SB is a solid player 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is good. The pot is huge, I gain folding equity, controll of the hand, and have position.

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 25.2260 % [ 00.23 00.03 ] { AJo }
Hand 2: 33.4007 % [ 00.31 00.02 ] { AA-77, AKs-A9s, KQs-KJs, AKo-ATo, KQo }
Hand 3: 21.2617 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K2s, QJs-Q4s, JTs-J5s, T9s-T6s, T3s, 98s-96s, 87s-86s, 82s, 76s, 74s, 65s, AKo-A2o, KQo-K5o, QJo-Q7o, JTo-J8o, J4o, J2o, T9o-T8o, 98o-97o, 93o, 87o, 63o }
Hand 4: 20.1116 % [ 00.19 00.01 ] { TT, 66-22, A7s-A2s, KTs-K2s, QJs-Q4s, JTs-J5s, T9s-T6s, T2s, 98s-96s, 87s-86s, 83s, 76s, 65s, 62s, 54s, AKo, A6o-A2o, KTo-K2o, QJo-Q6o, JTo-J6o, T9o-T7o, T3o, 98o-97o, 87o, 85o, 73o }

[ QUOTE ]

You are sandwiched on the flop between the preflop agressor and a raiser. You capped preflop and got bet into on a K high flop, do you feel the SB is just joking??

Your play in this hand is horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets say when I am faced with my first flop decision that if I hit my hand the pot will average 22BBs and it will cost me an average of 1.5BBs to see the turn. 1.5/22 is .068; 4/47 is .085. I think the odds I split or lose after making the nut straight are mitigated by the odds I make another hand and win. Saying this is horrendous it rediculous. The flop cap is at most a 1/8 sb mistake, do you also think that it buys me a free card never? Coldcalling then capping doesnt set of alarm bells for you? You would NEVER c/r a turn after this? This needs to buy me a free card like 12% to be good.

Edit: This hand is interesting but I dont want this thread to be only about this.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is huge, I gain folding equity

[/ QUOTE ]

When the pot is huge you do not gain folding equity.

Good luck with the rest.

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]

When the pot is huge you do not gain folding equity.

Good luck with the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is rediculous to say that I dont gain folding equity relative to the size of the pot with this cap. Outright folding equity is not relivent. My range with this cap, especially from the eyes of this sb, is cut by 75%.

It seems you are convinced I am wrong and dont see it worth your while to bring me to the light. I find your posts mildly insulting and would appreciate it if you could expound on your opinion.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

When the pot is huge you do not gain folding equity.

Good luck with the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is rediculous to say that I dont gain folding equity relative to the size of the pot with this cap. Outright folding equity is not relivent. My range with this cap, especially from the eyes of this sb, is cut by 75%.

It seems you are convinced I am wrong and dont see it worth your while to bring me to the light. I find your posts mildly insulting and would appreciate it if you could expound on your opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

By making the pot 16SB's preflop you drastically reduce any amount of folding equity you have. You also put yourself in the uncomfortable position of calling of the majority of your stack, either correctly or close to correctly, because you bloated the pot so much incorrectly preflop.

Rob

[w_alloy]

Thanks for the reply Entity, however this [ QUOTE ]


By making the pot 16SB's preflop you drastically reduce any amount of folding equity you have.

[/ QUOTE ] Is only repeating what Joe said and I already disagreed with. The only thing this can possibly do for me is get me to think about it more. I have, and still can't figure out where you are both comming from. If you could be more specific here I would appreciate it.

[ QUOTE ]
You also put yourself in the uncomfortable position of calling of the majority of your stack, either correctly or close to correctly, because you bloated the pot so much incorrectly preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only things I can imagine you are talking about are variance and making it tougher to play postflop. I dont think it makes it tougher to play, and I dont mind the variance.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Is only repeating what Joe said and I already disagreed with. The only thing this can possibly do for me is get me to think about it more. I have, and still can't figure out where you are both comming from. If you could be more specific here I would appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't be much more specific than that. In a 16SB pot when you're unable to face the field with two cold, the hope of folding any hands that aren't drawing stone cold dead is an illusion at best. In addition, you're overstating your equity, especially against a 3-bet from the small blind from a TAGGY player. Against a liberal 3-bet range (88+,ATs+,KQs,ATo+,KQo), you're looking at your hand being exactly break-even equity wise at showdown. You aren't exploiting a preflop equity edge that's worth exploiting, and furthermore, you're making the entire hand be about 'showdown' poker. In this case, you forced yourself into marginal decisions on the flop and the turn by capping a hand preflop that didn't give you much of an equity edge in a best-case scenario. How great is that?

Rob

Doesnt seem bad though. I think its marginal but probably somewhat profitable.

[blackize]

Joe told you that the preflop cap was bad because you have little or no extra equity over the others in the hand.

Entity told you that by incorrectly bloating the pot preflop you are decreasing the likelihood anyone is folding AND decreasing the impact of your mistakes later in the hand.

AJ is not a particularly strong hand against a 3 bettor although it does look better since the BB is 3betting and he could be doing this with a slightly larger range than usual.

Your flop cap is horrid. After the preflop 3 bet from the BB and his lead/3 bet on the flop his mostly likely hands become AA KK AK QQ JJ TT. Your cap gains you nothing. From here out the hand becomes easy to play since you picked up a stronger draw on the turn, but if you don't play this hand like a donkey preflop almost all of your decisions become bad.

[Entity]

I was so focused on preflop and your flop coldcall I didn't notice how bad your flop cap was. God it's terrible. Really really really really really bad poker. Did you consider trying handreading? You've got a 3.15 outer in a worst case scenario, or a 4 outer in a best case scenario. It should be clear there are no free cards to be had here.

Rob

[w_alloy]

This is really starting to anger me.

[ QUOTE ]
Joe told you that the preflop cap was bad because you have little or no extra equity over the others in the hand.

Entity told you that by incorrectly bloating the pot preflop you are decreasing the likelihood anyone is folding AND decreasing the impact of your mistakes later in the hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I dont understand why you are saying this. If it is in response to what I said about the first sentence of Entity's post echoing what Joe Tall already said, you misread something.

[ QUOTE ]
AJ is not a particularly strong hand against a 3 bettor although it does look better since the BB is 3betting and he could be doing this with a slightly larger range than usual.


[/ QUOTE ]

He was in the SB. I would really appreciate it if all future references to my preflop equity directly address mine or some other pokerstove calculation. I think my equity is about 25% any way you slice it, making the equity arguement mute from both sides.

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop cap is horrid. After the preflop 3 bet from the BB and his lead/3 bet on the flop his mostly likely hands become AA KK AK QQ JJ TT. Your cap gains you nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

He never slows down with QQ or JJ (which btw I dont think are a significant part of his range, but for the sake of arguing with you). He never slows down with AK? He NEVER c/r AA or KK?

[ QUOTE ]
if you don't play this hand like a donkey preflop almost all of your decisions become bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

How exactly was my preflop cap so horrible again? All you said about it was some inconclusive talk about my equity.

I dont mean to come off as abrasive, but I dont understand the reasoning behind anything in this post.