Stud 8 - Missed draws and unimproved pairs

[Duece Three]

Any comments as to how I played the following couple of hand?

<font color="blue">HAND 1</font>
7 Card Stud High-Low ($0.50/$1), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

Seat 1: $12.25
Seat 2: $23.25
Seat 3: $28.36
Seat 4: $28.13
Seat 5: $30.62
Hero: $34.01
Seat 7: $22.37
Seat 8: $24.25

3rd Street - (4.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (7.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 2: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (6.25 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 2: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (10.25 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

River - (14.25 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

Total pot: (17.25 BB)

Results (white):
<font color="white">
Main Pot: $16.50 | Rake: $0.75

Seat 1: [ Kc 2c Jc Jd 5d 9c 9s ] [ two pairs, jacks and nines -- Kc,Jc,Jd,9c,9s ]

Seat 4: [ 7h 3s 5h As 7c Js 7d ] [ three of a kind, sevens -- As,Js,7h,7c,7d ]

Seat 5: [ Ac 4s 3c 5s Jh 7s Qc ] [ LO: 7,5,4,3,A | HI: high card ace -- Ac,Qc,Jh,7s,5s ]
</font>


<font color="blue">HAND 2</font>
7 Card Stud High-Low ($0.50/$1), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

Seat 1: $11.12
Seat 2: $10.88
Seat 3: $23.18
Seat 4: $34.50
Seat 5: $35.66
Hero: $36.13
Seat 7: $24
Seat 8: $27.12

3rd Street - (4.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (8.50 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (6.25 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (9.25 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

River - (12.25 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: (15.25 BB)

Results (white):
<font color="white">
Main Pot: $14.50 | Rake: $0.75

Seat 2: [ 3c Ah 6s Js 4h Jc 6c ] [ two pairs, jacks and sixes -- Ah,Js,Jc,6s,6c ]

Hero: [ Kc Ks 8d 2c Ac 3s 6h ] [ LO: 8,6,3,2,A | HI: a pair of kings -- Ac,Kc,Ks,8d,6h ]

Seat 8: [ As 3d Kd 4d 5c Qh 8s ] [ LO: 8,5,4,3,A | HI: high card ace -- As,Kd,Qh,8s,5c ]
</font>

[Aquarian]

Hand 1:

I would fold 4th. I know you caught a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] but 3 are already dead,
and other people have caught low cards.

5th is bad because you catch a great card but now 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] are dead
and all the 5's ar dead. Only the 2's are really great now as if you
catch a 7 or 8 you may be behind Seat 4. I would have checked 5th for the
free card as you are not drawing very live.

6th is similar to 5th, though I guess noone seems to want to pot, but I would
assume at least one of the opps has a 1-way hand now.

Aq.

[Aquarian]

I hate KK, and 1 K being dead would be enough for me to fold this.
I guess completing is OK and at least the Ace folded. If you had
a lower card than 8 exposed it would be more deceptive, like a
nice low 3 card str8 or flush but the 8 gives it away, you are
probably playing a high hand.

You caught runner^4 low but lost which was unlucky but you were
chasing the whole way and probably never really knew where you
were either way which is not a good idea.

Aq.

[mscags]

Hand 1: Fold this on fourth street. You have two opponents who caught good low cards and you bricked. I would give it up right there. Fifth is a definite bet. I would check behind on sixth and take the free card. Looks like the one villian has a made low already although he sure isn't acting like it.

Hand 2: I play it the same way, sometimes the cards just don't fall the way you want them to.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: I play it the same way, sometimes the cards just don't fall the way you want them to.

[/ QUOTE ]I think this is a bad idea, particularly considering how loose his table is. With a slew of low cards and an Ace still to act (AND a dead King) I muck this without a second thought.

His high hand is transforming into a threatening low hand. And despite betting it the whole way, no one's folding. With two opponents showing really ragged boards calling this down despite showing lots of strength, I'm going to need to show down the best hand either high or low and neither is really that good. Most of Hero's bets are good against thinking opponents but I think it's spewing against multiple opponents who'll see you at the river no matter what.

Here I think you check 6th. The pot's getting pretty big and no one's going to fold now. With Seat 2 pairing his Jacks, you could easily be behind two pair or better and Hero still hasn't even made his low yet. If he does, it'll be a dodgy 8-low.

I've lost plenty of money trying to get people to make 'proper' folds. I think you have to just slow down here. Then they can pay you off when you make a wheel on 5th later on.

[Backstabr]

Hand 1: At these limits, you might try raising third for value if you want to get clever. The pot is large, so the call on fourth miiiiggghht be okay, but you need to discipline yourself to fold here. You must take the free card on sixth: you are behind for both halves of the pot, and really need to improve. No one is folding at these limits.

Hand 2: Fold third. If you are tricky and good, you may call.

[Andy B]

It's "deuce."

First hand, I would at least consider making it a full bet on third street. I think fourth street is fairly close. You're up against a paired door card, which makes your already-dubious high possibilities weaker. With three hearts and two Fives gone, yours is becoming more of a one-way hand, and you're looking at A5 and 53. On the plus side, the pot is pretty big, thanks in part to the ridiculous ante structure, and it is unlikely to be raised. I think taking one off here is OK, but folding can't be fare wrong.

Having caught your dream card on fifth, you have to bet when it's checked to you. You should check sixth, however. These guys aren't folding, and you don't have a hand yet. Too bad you couldn't hit anything on the river. Tough break.

On the second hand, especially given that this is a pretty loose bunch, I think that this is a fold. With a King gone and so many strong door cards out, I would probably fold this anyway. Having decided to play, I think you did well to bet on fourth. I'd fire again on fifth but check sixth. It is increasingly unlikely that you have the best hand, and it doesn't look like anyone is going away. Take the free card and hope you hit something. Having caught a low, I think the river is worth a value bet, although checking wouldn't be terrible.

[mscags]

After reviewing the hand I agree with you. I need to pay more attention about other people's door cards and the level before I post bad strategy. I still wouldn't mind limping in with this just to see fourth, but I think folding is probably the better idea. Nice Post.

Scags

[Prelude008]

On Hand 1 I probably would have completed 3rd since you already had callers. On 4th I probably would have taken one off (I'm still working more on 4th street folds). I would have checked 6th.

Hand 2 I would have folded from the start.