Sunday PP 150

currently about 60 people left out of 300+, i have 11k in chips (second in tourney) and villian is the chip leader(sitting right next to me)...villian has been super loose aggressive...won on a couple of awful suckouts...

blinds are 150/300

folded to villian in small blind who raises to 600...i call with 5c6c...i basically credit willian with any two cards...

flop comes 7s 7c 9s

villian bets 900, i call

turn is the pretty 8h

villian leads out with 1800...what do you think is the right increment raise?

[Lloyd]

No problem on calling the raise pre-flop. You have position and a nice little hand to play.

But calling his bet on the flop is suspect. You're getting 2.3 to 1 odds with a gutshot to the idiot end of the straight. So presuming the 8 is good you're still only about 10.5 to 1 to hit it on the turn. Are the implied odds good enough? I don't think so. Since he's aggro and could have any 2 cards, chances are he doesn't have something that will pay you off that much if you hit. Even if you get another 2/3 pot sized bet the implied odds are only about 4.5 to 1. So the only way you should call the flop bet is if you plan on making a move on the turn to steal the pot form him. But if you're going to do that, I like raising the flop more.

I would raise the turn because you have a paired board, flush draw, and he could make a higher straight if a 9 or T comes. A worse case scenario (worse case presuming you're ahead which you likely are) is that he has something like 12 outs. He is 3.7 to 1 to hit one of those 12 outs. So I think giving him something like 2.5 to 1 odds would be appropriate. The pot is 4200 after his turn bet. I'd raise to 6000. You could probably raise to 5000 and still charge him the right price though. So anywhere between 5 and 6 seems like a reasonable and purposeful raise.

[rockythecat99]

I dont like your call on the flop unless you were planning to represent that 7 no matter what hit. You got lucky that you hit your 8. If you didn't would you have folded? What was your plan. Looks like you were looking for a gutshot.

I make it 4k total.

[Jason Strasser]

Bad.

Sometimes your opponent will just give up here after he bets the flop.

Sometimes your opponent will bet and you will think you can bluff him out (provided you brick turn).

Sometimes your opponent will bet and you will believe him and fold.

You are allowed to call the flop with stacks like this and re-evaluate.

In this hand I'm going to raise the turn against this type of player so I can get it all in on the river in the rare event he can call. I tend to raise pretty large here so that he can conveniently put me on some draw.

-Jason

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
No problem on calling the raise pre-flop. You have position and a nice little hand to play.

But calling his bet on the flop is suspect. You're getting 2.3 to 1 odds with a gutshot to the idiot end of the straight. So presuming the 8 is good you're still only about 10.5 to 1 to hit it on the turn. Are the implied odds good enough? I don't think so. Since he's aggro and could have any 2 cards, chances are he doesn't have something that will pay you off that much if you hit. Even if you get another 2/3 pot sized bet the implied odds are only about 4.5 to 1. So the only way you should call the flop bet is if you plan on making a move on the turn to steal the pot form him. But if you're going to do that, I like raising the flop more.

I would raise the turn because you have a paired board, flush draw, and he could make a higher straight if a 9 or T comes. A worse case scenario (worse case presuming you're ahead which you likely are) is that he has something like 12 outs. He is 3.7 to 1 to hit one of those 12 outs. So I think giving him something like 2.5 to 1 odds would be appropriate. The pot is 4200 after his turn bet. I'd raise to 6000. You could probably raise to 5000 and still charge him the right price though. So anywhere between 5 and 6 seems like a reasonable and purposeful raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is all well-said, except that i think calling the flop and raising the turn is fine if you want to make a play. that's a "standard" way to play trips there. and it doesn't sound like this guy will fold overs to a flop raise.

i think that you should just fold the flop though. you need a hand to beat a lag, and you're not too psyched about doing some big semi-bluff if you pick up a flush draw given your chip position.

including your call, the pot's 6600. i'd make 3000 more, for 4.8k. hopefully small enough that overs will stick around. the pot will still be big enough that he'll have a tough time getting away from your river push if he has anything at all.

i understand that i dont have odds to call to my gutshot...my intention wasnt really to make the straight, it was more to make a move on the turn on any nonface type card, given that this guy had been playing so agg...

thinking back on it, maybe raising the flop would have been a better way of achieving same thing...

ill wait a little longer and post results

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
i understand that i dont have odds to call to my gutshot...my intention wasnt really to make the straight, it was more to make a move on the turn on any nonface type card, given that this guy had been playing so agg...

thinking back on it, maybe raising the flop would have been a better way of achieving same thing...

ill wait a little longer and post results

[/ QUOTE ]

as much as i hate when other people say it... that's read-dependent. some lags will bet very light but if they're raised they'll behave normally. others will re-raise all-in with A hi.

i ended up raising to 4500, and he called

the river brought the J...and u can guess the rest...i couldnt get myself to lay down to the push...

but i was curios to see if anyone was going to advocate an overbet(raise) on turn...

thanks for responses