MY first O8 post. Tear it apart.

[mother_brain]

Somewhere during this hand i realized i had no clue what i was doing. And yes it was early in the hand.

25$ PL O8

A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Four people see the flop for 3BB

3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villian bets pot (2.95) I am only one to call.

Turn:
10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villian bets 8.55, I call.

River:
8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villian puts me in for last $3, i call.

On the flop I figured a A,2,4,6,7,8 would give me a good low. With the six giving me low and a boat.

Is this thinking bad?

[Mendacious]

Yes and no.

Everything you said is true, but the question is how do you stand against the better. Right now you have an overpair (sixes) and a low draw which could be counterfitted if an Ace or 2 comes.

In all probability you have 2 outs to the nuts for the hi, and possibly 4 more outs (the fours) for a straight which may or may not be good. Lets call that 2 more outs. That means you are around 6-1 against winning the hi. As for the low, you have 18 outs for the low, and two streets to come, lets call that a 1 in 3 chance that no low will come at all, and 2 out of 3 chances that you will get half the pot.

The off shoot of all this is you are probably going to pay most of your stack with a 1/3 chance of losing it all, and about half as likely as that of a chance of scooping. So you are twice as likely to lose your stack as you are to double up, and only twice as likely to merely get your money back as to lose it all. Right now, you can get away from this hand for nothing .75 invested, and if the pot is split, the rake will virtually take care of the $1.50 dead money.

While you may have implied odds to call the flop, there is no way you have odds to call the turn.

[mother_brain]

Thank you very much. Thats about perfect.

[emptyshell]

Did you fkn raise preflop? Unless you had lousy position, probably worth doing.

I'd call the relatively small bet on the flop, hoping for a fkn 4 or a fkn 6 for a possible scoop; or at least a low card on the turn for a likely fkn freeroll. When I don't make the low on the turn and the Villain fkn pots it again, I'd fkn get out; you don't have any fkn implied odds anymore.

I assume blinds are like 10c/20c?
No need to reraise pf imo, 66 is not that incredible. You don't mind being the first raiser, but it's not a hand you want to go to war with.
Calling on the flop is fine. Low draw to the nuts, reasonable chance to escape for high.
You should fold on the turn, though. You basically have no chance to scoop the pot, and your opponent is showing a lot of strength, so you might get quartered (tie for low and lose high) even if you make your hand. Even if your draw is good, it can't be worth $8.55.
Obv easy call on the end though.

[lautzutao]

I think calling this flop pot bet is a big mistake.

Ok, question 1...do you think you are ahead on this flop? If I had your hand I would say no, but I don't really know what your opponent could be betting the flop with that you can beat...maybe he's an idiot

So we're behind on the high more than likely. Ok, question 2. Do we think we're good for the low? We COULD be...villian might have had A3xx or something else and he hit trips(my guess) but we have no counterfeit protection, not to mention we still have to draw for it...

Question 3: What can we put the villian on? He's bet the pot, so he must like his hand. I don't know anything about him, so I'll assume he's a fish and could have anything. Lets see some good scenarios and some bad ones...

He's semibluffing with A2trash or A25x...quite possible but not probable. This is probably the best case scenario we have, and against it we're going to scoop or 3/4 him a good amount.

He's Got A3xx...Ok, we're drawing to a live nut low, but need 1 of 2 sixes to capture high or 16 outs to the low...I'll estimate that you have 10 outs. Not great as most of those "outs" are to the nut low, you're realistically not gonna scoop this.

Worst case: A23x Yikes...quarter-central. He has the best hand and a draw to the nut low. You have 2 outs to the high, and you're going to split the low. You cannot call.
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The most likely case IMO is villian has A3xx, and you don't have any type of odds to call this, implied or otherwise. This isn't worth a pot call to me.

[Mendacious]

[ QUOTE ]
The most likely case IMO is villian has A3xx, and you don't have any type of odds to call this, implied or otherwise. This isn't worth a pot call to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree about not having the implied odds on the flop. You are paying $3 with 2/3 chance of getting your money back if the low comes, AND if a 4 or 6 comes, (roughly 1 in 8 chance) you probably get your opponents stack -- Which is presumably $25, or about 8-1 return. Without the low for insurance this is a little worse than even implied odds for that call. With the low insurance, I think the implied odds are clearly there.

[lautzutao]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree about not having the implied odds on the flop. You are paying $3 with 2/3 chance of getting your money back if the low comes, AND if a 4 or 6 comes, (roughly 1 in 8 chance) you probably get your opponents stack -- Which is presumably $25, or about 8-1 return. Without the low for insurance this is a little worse than even implied odds for that call. With the low insurance, I think he implied odds are clearly there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess he does have the implied odds(forgot about that gutshot), but just plugging some reasonable hands in I'm not liking this hand and would probably toss it on the flop...if villian has A23 he's an 85/15 dog, if villian has A3 and another low or villian has 55junk villian is 65/35.

Guess I'm being a weak/tight by suggesting to toss this with the numbers I posted, but this hand just doesn't feel right to me...

[Mendacious]

There is nothing wrong with folding the flop at all. I just don't think there is anything wrong with playing it either. The turn, though IS a fold for sure.

[DiceyPlay]

I only count 14 outs for the low. That's better than a 1 in 2 chance of hitting by the river. How did you count 18 outs?

I'm new to OH, so please forgive me if this is simple and I just can't see it.

Thanks,

-DP