Did I Play This Right?

[Paxosmotic]

What on earth is with that preflop call? You're playing for at best a really weak high.

Implied royal flush odds pre-flop. Approximately 25:1

[Cooker]

I am going to reply to this mostly to analyze the content of the play. The OP's preflop call was terrible. His hand probably isn't worth completing from the SB (although I will often complete with a hand like this) and certainly is not playable for a raise. Basically, I think Phil played this hand like a moron. Everyone knows he might have AA, but he will still often get played with by anyone with a J and often times someone with a J won't drive the betting. Phil cannot make a low, but gives anyone with 2 low cards other than an A a free chance to pick up a draw for half the pot on the flop (not to mention giving 2 free cards to a 1 out Royal Flush draw). I would always bet this flop unless I had a nut backdoor low to go along or there was no backdoor low possible. I guess the rest of the play by Phil was OK since he now has the deck totally crippled on the turn, and might get paid off by a straight or flush that makes on the end (remember with a double paired board, a FH or better is less likely than on a board with a single pair in Omaha). Quads vs a Royal is a must go broke situation in general, but here where the villian could easily have a boat or quad jacks, I think the guy with AA should go broke.

You are right about giving off 1 card to possibly let someone walk into a backdoor low. However, sometimes I will do that to make someone pay for their low draw on 4th street. Might get more money in the pot, depends on the particular situation. The additional free card on the turn makes Kings Full a possibility, although I'm not sure if that even pays off much on this crazy board.

Yes, certainly a must-go-broke situation for him, and it's lucky for him that he did not have his stack worked up at this point. Conceivably, he could lose much much more here. How many people are going to make that laydown even at the $4000 PLO8 table?

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Basically, I think Phil played this hand like a moron.

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I guess the rest of the play by Phil was OK since he now has the deck totally crippled on the turn

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I'm assuming by 'this hand' you mean 'the flop'

In my defence I think I the flop was played perfectly. If I bet now after a PF pot raise everyone is folding except AJ or JJ. I make a net gain of $3.50. I WANT a low to catch a draw on the turn, that's exactly how I'll make money out of this hand. If a low card comes on the turn, and I pot, I may well get one or two callers with a low draw, which are <50% to hit. Additionally if a J boats up I may get a caller.

Let's have a look at the E.V. of a turned low draw:

Against 1 caller:

Pot flop, low draw folds, net $3.50
Check flop, pot turn, low draw calls:
- 50% low hits: I net $1.00
- 50% low misses: I net $8.50

Average net gain by waiting: $1.25

Against 2 callers (which is likely given the preflop calls):

low card, pot turn:
- 50% low hits: I net $6 + 1/2 of the river action (likely all in)
- 50% low misses: I net $13.50

Average net gain by waiting: ~$7 + river action

There is also the possibility of a J boating up on the turn, a straight hitting, etc. Giving free cards to quad jacks or a royal flush is a remote possibility, but the -EV of that is less than $1 given the long odds. Checking behind is the correct play imo.

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Basically, I think Phil played this hand like a moron.

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Waiting for your apology. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Cooker]

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Basically, I think Phil played this hand like a moron.

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I guess the rest of the play by Phil was OK since he now has the deck totally crippled on the turn

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I'm assuming by 'this hand' you mean 'the flop'

In my defence I think I the flop was played perfectly. If I bet now after a PF pot raise everyone is folding except AJ or JJ. I make a net gain of $3.50. I WANT a low to catch a draw on the turn, that's exactly how I'll make money out of this hand. If a low card comes on the turn, and I pot, I may well get one or two callers with a low draw, which are <50% to hit. Additionally if a J boats up I may get a caller.

Let's have a look at the E.V. of this play, just from the turned low draw:

Against 1 caller:

Pot flop, low draw folds, net $3.50
Check flop, pot turn, low draw calls:
- 50% low hits: I net $1.00
- 50% low misses: I net $8.50

Average net gain by waiting: $1.25. This is with one caller, the WORST case scenario. With two low callers the EV goes way up, as does a J boating up on the turn, a straight hitting, etc. Checking behind is the correct play imo.

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Basically, I think Phil played this hand like a moron.

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Waiting for your apology. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Played like a moron was too harsh and I apologize. I still think you should bet the flop, because most times you don't have to wait for someone with a jack to boat up since they will call anyway. In PL you have to build pots and I think the pot you build getting someone with trip jacks to pay off is probably much better than what you make by letting people pick up a low draw and then miss. Even still, many people at this low level will call on the flop with only a backdoor low draw and a flush draw, making this an even more desirable bet. I think you tried too hard to be cute this hand when being straight foward in these types of situations figures to earn more money at these low levels IMHO. Yes, often they fold around when you bet and you wonder if you could have done better, but sometimes you bet the whole way get called down by trip jacks and a flush with a missed backdoor low and I think this will make alot more money at this level. Save the cute plays for players that don't try hard to give away their money.

Fair enough. I planned to pot the turn but quads came, the worst possible card I think [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You're probably right about people calling down with anything.

[emptyshell]

Your starting hand is donkey manure, no offense intended. The rest of the hand is uninteresting except for BadBeatPhil's horrible turn check.

Why's everyone playa hating on 10-10-Q-2? I purely play it as homage to Doyle. You guys are disrespecting the game.

[boscoboy]

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Why's everyone playa hating on 10-10-Q-2? I purely play it as homage to Doyle. You guys are disrespecting the game.

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another leak in your game that needs fixing