Scammed by a 2+2er

[bkholdem]

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The use of "force or fear" has to be "wrongful." It's not wrongful to say someone hasn't paid you back when they haven't paid you back. It is just stating the facts.

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So you are saying it is legal to blackmail someone so long as you only threaten to publicly humiliate him by stating true facts?

That would allow me to start a nice business taking pictures outside a no-tell motel and blackmailing the married men I caught. It would be completely true but I suspect you would agree that it's illegal.

****Those men don't owe you money you nimrod. If those men owed you money based on a deal you made with them, and you threatened to tell their co-workers that they are hiding from paying you, it is NOT BLACKMAIL.

You are either confused or stupid or both.

[bkholdem]

p.s. Have you ever seen or heard of posters of 'deabeat dads' hanging inside train stations, etc?

[balt999]

It's stories like is the reason I never staked or stacked someone for a tournament, live games, or any poker endevour. The only person I've ever staked is my girlfriend, but that's for small buy ins tournaments, both live and online.

LAst year I use to play the Orleans Friday night tournament every week, and occasionally the Mirage NL (When I had time), and I'm always get asked to stake someone or take a percentage of someone...I've always refused, cause I believe once you stake someone once, they become leeches feeling you have the obligation to stake them even if their less than honorable.

If I can't accomplish my poker goals on my own money, then I have no right beg someone for cash. I can honestly say, all my accomplishments in the poker world have been without the help of a backer.

[Turning Stone Pro]

Drop it. Consider it a lesson learned. You made a foolish "investment".

Here's the problem. While you might consider this a legitimate debt that is owed to you, the courts (and the District Attorney's Office) will not.

A contract, although entered in good faith, which is premised on illegal conduct, will not be enforced by the Courts, and will be deemed a nullity.

It gets potentially worse. In New York, for instance, you could very well be charged with Aggravated Harassment 2nd Degree, NY PL § 240.26, a Class A Misdemeanor, if you use the phone, internet, or mail to contact this person, and you do this "for no legitimate purpose", and this causes annoyance or alarm to a third person. The Courts will hold that an illegal gambling debt constitutes such an illegitimate purpose.

Each and every seperate contact with this individual could form the basis of a seperate criminal charge, and could result in consecutive sentences.

Take this into consideration. The $3k you are out is a drop in the bucket compared to the time, expense, and long term ramifications of coming out of this with a criminal record.

TSP

[bkholdem]

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Drop it. Consider it a lesson learned. You made a foolish "investment".

Here's the problem. While you might consider this a legitimate debt that is owed to you, the courts (and the District Attorney's Office) will not.

A contract, although entered in good faith, which is premised on illegal conduct, will not be enforced by the Courts, and will be deemed a nullity.

It gets potentially worse. In New York, for instance, you could very well be charged with Aggravated Harassment 2nd Degree, NY PL § 240.26, a Class A Misdemeanor, if you use the phone, internet, or mail to contact this person, and you do this "for no legitimate purpose", and this causes annoyance or alarm to a third person. The Courts will hold that an illegal gambling debt constitutes such an illegitimate purpose.

Each and every seperate contact with this individual could form the basis of a seperate criminal charge, and could result in consecutive sentences.

Take this into consideration. The $3k you are out is a drop in the bucket compared to the time, expense, and long term ramifications of coming out of this with a criminal record.

TSP

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Are you laying odds on a jury convicting the guy for making phone calls trying to collect this debt? In other words, get real!

[Turning Stone Pro]

No offense, sir, but I believe this is one area I am qualified to address.

TSP

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The use of "force or fear" has to be "wrongful." It's not wrongful to say someone hasn't paid you back when they haven't paid you back. It is just stating the facts.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you are saying it is legal to blackmail someone so long as you only threaten to publicly humiliate him by stating true facts?

That would allow me to start a nice business taking pictures outside a no-tell motel and blackmailing the married men I caught. It would be completely true but I suspect you would agree that it's illegal.

What's wrongful is the threat, not the action being threatened. If I want to take pictures and ruin marriages I can do it. I can also show the men the pictures and tell them I'm sending them to their wives. It's all free speech. But I cross the line when I demand money in exchange for my silence.

Would it have been legal for OP to demand full payment and an additional $10000 in return for his silence? Or would you agree that is extortion?

I know everyone wants to believe that OP's entitled to do this because he's owed the money. Morally I might agree with you. But legally there is no difference between extorting repayment of a debt and extorting something you were never entitled to. Extortion is legally a form of theft that is achieved by threatening the victim. It's illegal to steal back money you are owed.

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How does one 'extort' repayment of a debt?

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The use of "force or fear" has to be "wrongful." It's not wrongful to say someone hasn't paid you back when they haven't paid you back. It is just stating the facts.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you are saying it is legal to blackmail someone so long as you only threaten to publicly humiliate him by stating true facts?

That would allow me to start a nice business taking pictures outside a no-tell motel and blackmailing the married men I caught. It would be completely true but I suspect you would agree that it's illegal.

What's wrongful is the threat, not the action being threatened. If I want to take pictures and ruin marriages I can do it. I can also show the men the pictures and tell them I'm sending them to their wives. It's all free speech. But I cross the line when I demand money in exchange for my silence.

Would it have been legal for OP to demand full payment and an additional $10000 in return for his silence? Or would you agree that is extortion?

I know everyone wants to believe that OP's entitled to do this because he's owed the money. Morally I might agree with you. But legally there is no difference between extorting repayment of a debt and extorting something you were never entitled to. Extortion is legally a form of theft that is achieved by threatening the victim. It's illegal to steal back money you are owed.

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How does one 'extort' repayment of a debt?

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Try this as an example:

I am owed a million dollars by someone. Lets call him Donald Trump. I don't know what he looks like but I know where he eats lunch. I go to the place at lunchtime. I shout out "There is a person here that owes me a million dollars" (and gives a few details of the deal so Donald knows I'm talking about him). I describe how the person has taken steps to aviod repayment of the debt. I say "you have 24 hours to contact me to make arrangements to repay the debt or I will come back here and identify you in front of eveyone"

That's blackmail?

I can go around telling everyone that Donald Trump has ducked paying me back and still be entitled to be paid back. I can go on TV and describe our deal and how I attempted to get repaid and how he ducked me. I am still entitled to the money and am not breaking the law by talking about the facts of our deal and the facts surrounding how I attempted to get repaid and the facts of how he avoided me. I am still entitled to be repaid.

I can do all of the above even after he repays me and am not breaking the law.

[bkholdem]

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No offense, sir, but I believe this is one area I am qualified to address.

TSP

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OK. Can you please site a case where someone was tried and convicted under circumstances similar to those we are talking about.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I couldn't without violating attorney-client privilege. Suffice it to say, though, that it is very possible to get so charged.

Obviously, it is not highly probable that the D.A. would pick up these charges, but certainly possible, depending on the degree of culpability exhibited by our hero.

I was only offering words of caution . . . certainly, he can proceed at your own risk. A high percentage of my business comes from folks who don't believe they could get in trouble for doing something they believe is morally justified.

I guess that's why they say . . . CRYMPAYZ.