First attempt @ sh 5/10

me454555 · #1 01-27-2005, 05:49 PM

This was my first session shorthanded and I think it went ok. Here are a couple of hands I had questions about. Also, what level vp$ip and pfr do the best players have. I was thinking something along the lines of 25/15 is probobly right but I'd like to have a more solid figure from some of the more experienced out there.

These 5 hands are all pretty similar. The biggest change I've noticed in 5/10 is that I have to steal more and I'm also forced to bet more often w/A high and K high. In each of these hands I've missed the flop after raiseing pf. Anyone play them differently?

Hand 1

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (6 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Hand 2

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.20 BB

Hand 3

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Hand 4

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Hand 5

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6 BB

J.R. · #2 01-27-2005, 05:58 PM

I'd call the river in hand 1

I often check the turn in hand 2 with this kinda board

I am suspicious of the turn bet in hand 4, without a read its hard to say but both calling and raising feel like they could be acceptable answers.

In hand 5 I don't think betting the turn is out of the question but its a spot I often check fold in.

reads/stats can effect these decision a fair bit.

IMO 25-15 is pretty optimal (maybe slighty too much for 5-10), but start tight and add hands as you get comfortable with the postflop play. for someone unfamilar with the game I think 25/15 is too much to be optimal.

Shakespeare · #3 01-27-2005, 06:45 PM

I would like to start by saying I do not know you, I do not know how you play, so my comments are not directed towards you. Infact, I will be commenting on some of the problems that I encountered when starting 5-10 6max.

I will let others with more experience comment on the hands, I on the other hand would like to comment on the general obsession of the SH forum with stats (Myself included).

I think far too much emphasis is placed on the perfect stats, whatever they may be, VP$IP 25?, PFR 15?, etc. I personally feel that these stats should only be considered if the individual player is similar in style to the players who created the “perfect” stats in the first place (I doubt anyone starting 6max is). I do fully accept that my VP%IP of approximately 19 misses many +ev hands, however I don’t think I was good enough (post flop at 6max) to warrant playing these hands from the start. Well I did play some of these hands, and alas I wasn’t good enough post flop (at 6max) therefore these marginal +ev hands became –ev hands for me. I think my main problem was that I overplayed some of the Axo and Axs hands, this is something to watch out for.

I have now started playing some of these marginal hands again (From good position), hopefully my 6max game has improved enough to convert these hands to +ev.

In conclusion, this is not necessarily directed to you (You might be fine post flop), but to all the players that think the perfect stats are … perfect!

me454555 · #4 01-28-2005, 01:45 AM

My stats question was more directed @ reading other players than myself. When I'm playing full ring games, I know if my opponent plays 25% of hands he's probobly a little loose. It helps me deduce what sort of hands he plays and I can adjust my post flop play accodingly. If I see a player who only plays 12% of the hands, I know he is tighter and I make adjustments the that too. The same goes for pfr as well.

When I changed ot sh, I need to adjust these standards accordingly. I was wondering about the general stats of the good players at this forum as a jumping off point. If I could get a handle of what the range of stats for the good players are, I can then figure out which opponents are loose and which ones are too tight.

spydog · #5 01-28-2005, 08:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call the river in hand 1

I often check the turn in hand 2 with this kinda board

I am suspicious of the turn bet in hand 4, without a read its hard to say but both calling and raising feel like they could be acceptable answers.

In hand 5 I don't think betting the turn is out of the question but its a spot I often check fold in.

reads/stats can effect these decision a fair bit.

IMO 25-15 is pretty optimal (maybe slighty too much for 5-10), but start tight and add hands as you get comfortable with the postflop play. for someone unfamilar with the game I think 25/15 is too much to be optimal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with JR on most of this. Hand 4 I would probably raise and check-behind on the river. It's easy to fold to a 3-bet and most clowns will go for the CR if they have an 8. If you fold in this spot, you are encouraging people to bluff at you on bluffable boards.

Hand 5: I don't like check-folding with a flush draw, so I probably fire away again on the turn. Tough spot, though.