pushed too hard?

sin808 · #1 08-25-2004, 09:44 AM

Anyone play this any differently? Should I have checked the river, if so why?
Table is uber loose, not very aggressive at all. No read on villain in particular, he's pretty much in line with the rest of the table.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: sin is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, sin raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, sin bets, CO folds, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, sin bets, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, sin bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB
Main Pot: 10.25 BB, between sin and BB.

BucHawk · #2 08-25-2004, 10:02 AM

I'd be interested in seeing how others see this as well. You see it so frequently at loose passive small stake tables.

I think you played it right, but about 80% of the time, the BB will turn over something like J6. The other 20% he is so bad he has something like K5clubs and just called the river out of habit.

crockett · #3 08-25-2004, 10:04 AM

I've been getting this situation a lot in the lower levels and I do believe you are pushing too hard. Especially after what you say at the beginning of your post. I always try to keep in mind what the words loose and passive actually mean to a thinking player.

Loose --- will see a flop for just about any two cards. In your hand a 6 8 3 fit the any two card category.

Passive --- Doesn't like to do much betting and raising but still likes winning like the rest of us so will call down when they have a hand. And again in your hand example you have the perfect example of passive players. You raised and come out firing and you get four folders. But....someone comes along.

On the turn I suck it up and check this hand down and when I'm shown the pair of 6's, I pat myself on the back for saving my 2 BB's and not risking them to win just a losy 2 BB's.

The only time I think this play works is if you just won a hand recently where it looked like you stayed with crap and were lucky to win the hand. For example you checked in from the BB and ended up hitting a straight draw. They quickly forget you checked in in the first place and don't even realize that your were staying for your str8 draw because you had proper pot odds. Then I think there might be a chance he is putting you on a bluff and calling you down.

crockett · #4 08-25-2004, 10:09 AM

Exactly, if your percentages are correct then I think you just check it down from the turn on. Because if you go bet...bet you are losing money in the long run.

I was replying as you were replying and I totally agree with you that this is a very common situation in low levels and I think I am finally convinced that it is a leak in my game and have been switching my line from raise, bet, bet, bet to raise, bet, check, check.

sin808 · #5 08-25-2004, 07:05 PM

Villain shows A4o and mhig. still not sure if betting is the +EV play or not though.

nolanfan34 · #6 08-25-2004, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain shows A4o and mhig. still not sure if betting is the +EV play or not though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to hear what some of the vets say about this as well.

I tend to check through the river on a hand like this, as I just don't know whether I want a call or not. Betting may get a missed straight or flush draw to fold, but in many cases if you check you're still ahead of those missed draws anyway.

It's certainly opponent dependant, and I agree with the distinction between loose and passive. There's a difference there, and against a passive player I'm more likely to check through the river when they've been calling me down the whole way.

SnakeRat · #7 08-25-2004, 08:07 PM

You should have checked the river.

Any pair will call you.
No pair will rarely ever call.

If you know this guy routinely calls down with no pair, then betting is fine.
Few players are this loose.