Barron's September Article

[ptmusic]

This is the KQs gutshot article. A great article; I don't disagree with anything in it, actually. Well done!

My question involves this sentence:

"It started to look bad. However, I looked at the implied odds."

Then there is a lengthy description of all the possible implied odds, depending on how many more raises there might be in the turn and the river. Also calculated were the number of cards available to make the hand, considering the likely holdings of the opponents.

PHEW! That's a LOT OF THINKING IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE.

I often review hands to this level of accuracy, mathematically. But I do it after the fact.

Did you (does anybody) make ALL those calculations on the fly, right then and there, while the other players were waiting for your decision???

-ptmusic

[BarronVangorToth]

I have always been more of a math nerd than most, but I don't think being able to figure out all sorts of things - especially live when you're not playing 4+ tables at once - is especially difficult. After a while, it's second nature and no one is the wiser as far as a delay goes.

A big help to this is to always know the size of the pot, as many 2+2 books recommend, but not in terms of $, but in terms of BB. Practice this and pretty soon even if you aren't really paying attention, you'll know exactly the # of BB in the pot at any given time, even when you're not in the hand, just by the action that you know took place.

I'm glad you enjoyed the article; thanks for the compliment!

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
(does anybody) make ALL those calculations on the fly

[/ QUOTE ]

not really.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]

not really.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you want to be a more profitable player, you should start. It is definitely a further edge you can have in today's gaming environment.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[DMBFan23]

I agree with you if we're talking about knowing the "likely" amount of implied odds we will receive, or whether it is "likely" to be capped and how that will affect our decision. I do these things in detail away from the table frequently, and assign hand ranges and percentages of probable actions. However, when actually at the table I will count my outs and know the rough size of the pot at all times (i.e. before rake), but I do not assign a range of the percentage likelihood my opponent will cap and calculate the weighted pot odds, and the effect this will have on implied odds, accordingly. Nor can one calculate equity versus any sufficiently wide hand range at the table, though that exampe was not included in this article so I won't go into too much there. I think the mental math for these things is too involved with all the things one is trying to process at the poker table, not to mention acting quickly so my opponents don't think I'm a WPT fanboi trying to see into his soul.

you may be interested in this link, particularly the second to last paragraph.

EDIT: my answer was definitely dependant on OP's emphasis of 'ALL' in his post. I agree that calculations happen at the table.

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
(does anybody) make ALL those calculations on the fly, right then and there,

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if they play 10/20 B&M.

[Justin A]

The key is to do these types of calculations away from the poker table, over and over again. This is something that GuyOnTilt stresses a lot. You do these calculations for many different situations so that when it comes down to playing the hand, you have a pretty good idea of what's going on, even if you don't have it exactly.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]

Not if they play 10/20 B&M.

[/ QUOTE ]


Whether you're playing $4-$8, $5-$10, $20-$40, above, or anywhere in between or below, there is no reason not to get yourself into good poker habits now.

Yes, it is true that you can beat, say, the average 10 game without doing a lot of this type of thing in your head ... but why not maximize your potential?

Why not get yourself into good habits now so that when you move up (if you decide to) that you're already in that mindset?

Or, if you plan on hanging around the higher low-limit games, get to the point where its second nature and you're really crushing them?

Even drinking heavily at the table (which some of us are unfortunately prone to do), you can still do all of that, have fun joking around, and not slow down anything...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
rough size of the pot at all times (i.e. before rake),

[/ QUOTE ]


IF you're not at a table paying time (i.e. it's a raked pot) this is a great point: sometimes those decisions which are truly "on the edge" ... that $4 rake makes those razor thin decisions go the other way. Something to keep in mind if you find a situation that is EV neutral, that it's probably then just off the cliff into -EV land due to that $4.

Especially if you're doing rough calculations and not precise figuring.

Me, personally, if I get into a situation where it seems like "even money" -- if it's a raked pot, it then becomes a fold.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]

Even drinking heavily at the table (which some of us are unfortunately prone to do),

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that possible at foxwoods?