Heartland Poker Tour allows questionable entry option

[tek]

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And your statement about wanting to play with better players instead of worse ones is so wrong i'm not even gonna bother honestly just think about that for a minute.

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Really? Then please check the first paragraph on page 89 of "Ace on the River" by Barry Greenstein.

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And as I said in my OP, let me pay $4k and skate into the final table directly...

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Your logic here is flawed. A seat at the final table of an event is worth 1/9 (or 1/10th if tables are 10-handed) of the total prize pool which is much more than $4k. If this tournament draws 100 players total it's somewhere more along the lines of $22k for a buyin to the final table to be on-par with the other buyin values. Add more players and the value of a FT seat rises in proportion.

I'm in agreement with other posters here. It seems as if you're just throwing a tantrum because you can't afford to buyin directly for the $2200. The first round specifically is called a qualifier. It qualifies you for the final event which also has a direct buyin available. This is no different than ANY other tournament that offers satellites (or qualifiers if you want to be picky about terminology here). I'm sure the forum players here that won satellites to events like WSOP, WPT, WCOOP have no complaints about the direct buyins available to the other players - and rightfully so. The value of the prize in the satellite/qualifier is the same as the value of a seat. Just because this is the only qualifier available into the final event it does not make it unjust or unfair.

Why should this tournament be structured any differently than just about every other major tournament hosted on Earth? Are you really that concerned about the players buying in directly being more skilled than you? Be happy that you got a seat for 1/5th the price they did and play your best game. Winning would have a much higher ROI for you than someone buying in at full price.

Or cough up the $2200 and buyin to the main event.

Or you could just not play in it.

[Black Aces 518]

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Here's an analogy.

You can pay $10k and play in the WSOP Main Event on Day 1.

Or you can win a satellite and show up on Day 1.

Or you can pay $50k and just show up on the last day and not have to go through all the hands and take the risks that the other finalists had to go through.

Now do you guys see the difference?

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Apparently you don't see the difference. If you paid to be on the final day of the WSOP or paid $4K to be in the final table, you would always be +EV because you would automatically win more than you paid. If you want a berth at the final table, you should have to pay whatever 3rd pays, not twice the buyin.

Why are you taking advantage of those poor people who don't have $400 and so have to struggle through the $65 tourneys while you just roll up with your fat roll and skate right in???

[Black Aces 518]

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Also notice the key difference between buying into the Sunday tourney and buying into the final table is that everyone starts with the same number of chips on Sunday because its a completely seperate tourney whereas you carry your chips over the the final table because its the same tourney.

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[adanthar]

After 70 posts in this thread, I'm not gonna call anyone stupid. Instead, I'll just say I feel dumber for having read it.

[tek]

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Your logic here is flawed. A seat at the final table of an event

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I didn't work out the numbers because I was being sarcastic.

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It seems as if you're just throwing a tantrum because you can't afford to buyin directly for the $2200. Are you really that concerned about the players buying in directly being more skilled than you?

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I could pay the 2200, but as I have said a few times that money would be better spent on a tourney where everyone pays 2200 resulting in a 1st place payout much higher than 30k.

And as Greg stated to me, the guys asking for the new structure suck and need an advantage to make it to the finals.

In other words, they asked for a new structure because they can't do what 100-200 of us have been able to do each month.

The big question I have been asking, but you guys (who supposedly can read Sklansky books) don't get it is should tournies change their structures to accomodate a few players or should the structure remain uniform each month?

They do this all the time. At the Jackpot Junction event, they allowed a vote at the last minute to increase the payout from the 30 that was advertised to 40. Then they changed it back to 30 for future events because they realized that they had to flat of a payout. They rolled back the blind levels at the final table after the first event.

Now a couple players need help qualifying, so they change it for them.

You said that I should be happy I can get in for $440 instead of the $2200 some guys are willing top pay. I don't dispute that.

But I still have to wonder why would these guys pay 5 times as much voluntarily if they weren't getting an equal benefit from it in their mind? The benefit is they don't have to acumulate more chips than 80% of the players on either a Friday or Saturday--they just show up on Sunday.

Apparantly they feel they are getting an advantage.

And another question in general (not specifically about the HPT) I have is how do we know the extra 1560 goes into the prize fund? Nobody has a name tag on that says "I paid $2200" or "I paid $440". Some of the extra money may be added to the prize fund and some may not.

[Exitonly]

fadf;lajsd;flkja


i realize we were told to drop this, but you keep it going, and i can't pass up an argument.


Your seat in this new round (or new tournament) is worth 2200.. They're buying in for 2200, you keep saying it doesnt pay out like a normal $2200 tournament... SURE IT DOES.. they're playinga 65 person tournament, $30k is exactly right for first place.

I think deep down you know you're wrong, but you're stubborn like i am, and just can't admit it.

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And another question in general (not specifically about the HPT) I have is how do we know the extra 1760 goes into the prize fund? Nobody has a name tag on that says "I paid $2200" or "I paid $440". Some of the extra money may be added to the prize fund and some may not.

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This one is very simple for me. I want to know that every cent a player puts into the prize pool goes there and nowhere else. House fees MUST be stated up front and taken from the entry with the remainder going to a prize pool. Any other buyin structure is completely unacceptable to me. I wouldn't play in a tournament at all if I knew that the TD was pocketing some of the buyin money and not declaring up front what the cut for the house is. If 100 people buyin for $2200 I expect there to be a $220,000 prize pool. If 400 buyin I expect a $880,000 prize pool. If it's stated up front that $200 of the $2200 is for the house, that's fine - as long as I know before I pay my money into the prize pool. If the tournament directors are pocketing some of this money and not disclosing it, not only do I recommend not playing the tournament but I'd also recommend making it public knowledge so that those clowns couldn't run a successful tournament ever again.

On another note, it is not an "extra" 1760. The value of a seat is $2200. Every seat occupied by a player should add $2200 to the prize pool. You bought into the first round for 440 and took the equivalent of 5 of those buyins to the next round - or $2200. Is this concept that difficult for you to understand with your 2000+ posts?

[tek]

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And another question in general (not specifically about the HPT) I have is how do we know the extra 1760 goes into the prize fund? Nobody has a name tag on that says "I paid $2200" or "I paid $440". Some of the extra money may be added to the prize fund and some may not.

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This one is very simple for me. I want to know that every cent a player puts into the prize pool goes there and nowhere else. House fees MUST be stated up front and taken from the entry with the remainder going to a prize pool. Any other buyin structure is completely unacceptable to me. I wouldn't play in a tournament at all if I knew that the TD was pocketing some of the buyin money and not declaring up front what the cut for the house is. If 100 people buyin for $2200 I expect there to be a $220,000 prize pool. If 400 buyin I expect a $880,000 prize pool. If it's stated up front that $200 of the $2200 is for the house, that's fine - as long as I know before I pay my money into the prize pool. If the tournament directors are pocketing some of this money and not disclosing it, not only do I recommend not playing the tournament but I'd also recommend making it public knowledge so that those clowns couldn't run a successful tournament ever again.

On another note, it is not an "extra" 1760. The value of a seat is $2200. Every seat occupied by a player should add $2200 to the prize pool. You bought into the first round for 440 and took the equivalent of 5 of those buyins to the next round - or $2200. Is this concept that difficult for you to understand with your 2000+ posts?

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The 2200 is actually 2000 + 200. And the 440 is 400 + 40. So the 40 and 200 go to the TD's.

Now 2000 minus 400 is 1800. So actually I should have said the "extra 1800". I consider it an extra 1800 because according to Greg most players will pay the 400 + 40. If they didn't acquiesce to these guys format request, everyone would still pay 440 (or 275 or 550), play on Fri or Sat and maybe or maybe not come back on Sun.

Up until and including this month's even, one can multiply the finalists by 5 and multiply that by 400 to get the prize fund.

With next month's new structure, it won't be known how many pay 440 and how many pay 2200 unless they post a list of everyone who entered by name and entry amount. Otherwise we take it on good faith that the 2000 from the guys who pay 2000 + 200 goes into the prize fund.

Again, I'm not saying the HPT would do anything wrong. I was just asking if anyone has experience in a tourny where there is a two-tiered buyin like the Nov event.

And for the last time, it doesn't matter if it's now a 440 satellite and a 2200 tourney. The question I raise is Is it okay for TD's to be wishy-washy and change the format everytime someone asks? Is that a good basis to operate new tounament organization on?

[Black Aces 518]

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And another question in general (not specifically about the HPT) I have is how do we know the extra 1760 goes into the prize fund? Nobody has a name tag on that says "I paid $2200" or "I paid $440". Some of the extra money may be added to the prize fund and some may not.

[/ QUOTE ]

This one is very simple for me. I want to know that every cent a player puts into the prize pool goes there and nowhere else. House fees MUST be stated up front and taken from the entry with the remainder going to a prize pool. Any other buyin structure is completely unacceptable to me. I wouldn't play in a tournament at all if I knew that the TD was pocketing some of the buyin money and not declaring up front what the cut for the house is. If 100 people buyin for $2200 I expect there to be a $220,000 prize pool. If 400 buyin I expect a $880,000 prize pool. If it's stated up front that $200 of the $2200 is for the house, that's fine - as long as I know before I pay my money into the prize pool. If the tournament directors are pocketing some of this money and not disclosing it, not only do I recommend not playing the tournament but I'd also recommend making it public knowledge so that those clowns couldn't run a successful tournament ever again.

On another note, it is not an "extra" 1760. The value of a seat is $2200. Every seat occupied by a player should add $2200 to the prize pool. You bought into the first round for 440 and took the equivalent of 5 of those buyins to the next round - or $2200. Is this concept that difficult for you to understand with your 2000+ posts?

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The 2200 is actually 2000 + 200. And the 440 is 400 + 40. So the 40 and 200 go to the TD's.

Now 2000 minus 400 is 1800. So actually I should have said the "extra 1800". I consider it an extra 1800 because according to Greg most players will pay the 400 + 40. If they didn't acquiesce to these guys format request, everyone would still pay 440 (or 275 or 550), play on Fri or Sat and maybe or maybe not come back on Sun.

Up until and including this month's even, one can multiply the finalists by 5 and multiply that by 400 to get the prize fund.

With next month's new structure, it won't be known how many pay 440 and how many pay 2200 unless they post a list of everyone who entered by name and entry amount. Otherwise we take it on good faith that the 2000 from the guys who pay 2000 + 200 goes into the prize fund.

Again, I'm not saying the HPT would do anything wrong. I was just asking if anyone has experience in a tourny where there is a two-tiered buyin like the Nov event.

And for the last time, it doesn't matter if it's now a 440 satellite and a 2200 tourney. The question I raise is Is it okay for TD's to be wishy-washy and change the format everytime someone asks? Is that a good basis to operate new tounament organization on?

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God Damn. I love how you say everyone is paying the 400+40. Except the people playing the $65 qualifiers, right? How are the $440 payers:$65 payers not the same as $2200 payers:$440 payers?

Also you said that you could previously multiply finalists by 5 then x 400 to get the prize pool. Mutiplying by 5 then by 400 is the same as multiplying by 2000. You can still multiply the finalists by 2000 to get the prize pool. NO CHANGE.

No, it's not a good basis to run a tournament to accommodate the most people possible. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]