Getting a large portion of your stack in PF with Aces

jhall23 · #1 07-21-2005, 11:55 AM

So when the action gets to me here I see that I can raise it up to over 25% of my stack PF and decide to go for it. Is the raise a large enough percentage of my stack to make this move OOP or should I just call and see a flop? I figure it was OK since I would only have a pot sized bet left if called anywhere.

Also are there any flops that you would not bet out on?

Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converter

UTG+2 ($103.98)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($8.10)
MP3 ($15.25)
CO ($24.01)
Button ($1)
SB ($45.50)
Hero ($23.75)
UTG ($52.45)
UTG+1 ($26.15)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, UTG+2 raises to $1.35, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.35, 2 folds, Button calls $1 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero raises to $7, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $5.65, MP2 folds.

Flop: ($16.95) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $16.15, UTG+2 calls $16.15.

Turn: ($49.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $0.6 (All-In), UTG+2 calls $0.60.

River: ($50.45) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $50.45

RickyG · #2 07-21-2005, 01:14 PM

25% is not a large portion, of your stack in this situation IMO. While many people would call a $3 bet on the flop with nothing, most will not call a $16 one without something. The point is that you can get all in on the flop easily. Here, you made a pot sized bet, and you still had $.16 left.

BTW, how did you get the hand converter to work?

Tilt · #3 07-21-2005, 01:23 PM

I think the keys are: can you limit the field with a raise to HU or 3 way, and can you raise it enough to get all in on the flop.

The point is you don't want to be shoving in a significant portion of your stack after you are already behind. HU against most hands you will not be on the flop. With 7 callers on an aceless flop and no flush draw you probably will be.

joewatch · #4 07-21-2005, 01:48 PM

I think that 25% of your stack is not enough.

Also, these are naked, unsuited aces with negligible straightening possibilities.

In the BB, this hand is poor enough that I would consider mucking. Only an ace on the flop helps you.

jhall23 · #5 07-21-2005, 01:51 PM

Right, when I was asking about pushing (well almost, after rake I couldn't) on the flop it was for this situation. I wouldn't think about doing it without some extra help of a draw if I somehow ended up with 5 callers on this flop.

I thought since there were just a few limpers and then a cold caller that I had a good shot to get it down to 3 players here. So I guess the play was +EV but high variance.

Villian in this hand had AKQTds with KTc so both times I put significant money in I was the favorite and I can't complain.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, how did you get the hand converter to work?

[/ QUOTE ]

RickyG,

I fixed the converter problem by changing the line with the game type. After Party skins update a little while ago they changed the text that says what game it is. If you switch it back to the old way Bisions converter works fine.

So change as shown below

From (new format)

0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Tue Jul 19 22:04:48 EDT 2005

To (old format)

0/0 OmahaHiGameTable (PL) - Tue Jul 19 22:04:48 EDT 2005

Also just to note, I found that if you use the emailed versions of the HH's (even prior to the recent problems) that they converter perfectly, but if you use the ones on your HD they don't look as nice. That's why I usually email myself many hands while I play that I may have questions on and then review them later to see if I want to post them.

jhall23 · #6 07-21-2005, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that 25% of your stack is not enough.

Also, these are naked, unsuited aces with negligible straightening possibilities.

In the BB, this hand is poor enough that I would consider mucking. Only an ace on the flop helps you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding eh? Hmm, I didn't even consider since I could catch and Ah and pick up top set with nut flush redraw.

Anyway, how much of our stack are we looking to get in PF to make a re-raise OOP worthwile here, 50%?

theben · #7 07-21-2005, 03:34 PM

thats definetly not enough of a % of your stack to make that move and then go broke with

muck_nutz · #8 07-21-2005, 10:52 PM

When I first started playing this game I thought 50%-60%. I've been trending up from that to more like 75% or more. Note that Lyle Berman in SS2 suggests 75%. Also your position sucks. You just announced aces, have a bunch of money left to burn, and have to act first. Everybody else that covers you is getting 3:1 on your stack. Not a good place to be when you've told them half of your cards.

Rosie5 · #9 07-22-2005, 02:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that 25% of your stack is not enough.

Also, these are naked, unsuited aces with negligible straightening possibilities.

In the BB, this hand is poor enough that I would consider mucking. Only an ace on the flop helps you.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you muck the best hand? he has the current nuts, only he can't go all in or close to it--infact, it's almost a guarentee he cant' make most people fold.

He doesn't really want to show his hand down, but he does have the nuts right now.

Am I saying he should overplay it like he did? let's not go crazy here, I'm meerly saying that mucking is out of the question preflop.

Since we're on the subject of AAxx preflop, is it +EV to sit in an agressive game low stakced and push preflop every opportunity you get AAxx? assuming of course you leave after a score, only a moron would think he could survive multiple AAxx preflop jams

joewatch · #10 07-22-2005, 03:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why would you muck the best hand? he has the current nuts, only he can't go all in or close to it--infact, it's almost a guarentee he cant' make most people fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The topic of naked AAxx in the blinds has been discussed many times. You have the best hand, but you are a big dog to the field. Also, you are unlikely to make any more money with a flopped ace unless you are playing with complete idiots. 'nuff said.