low limit hold'em

[Dynasty]

Are low-limit Hold’em games beat-able?

Over the last 2+ months, I've been taking a lot of time off after playing a full poker schedule for a year and a half. During those 2+ months, I've played about 100 hours of 4-8 for fun and have been averaging slightly over 2.5 big bets per hour.

The exact 2.5 bb/hr figure is not important because it is over a statistically irrelevent # of hours. However, during this time, I have come to an independent conclusion that the 4-8 Vegas games are beatable for 2 to 2.5 bb/hr for a true expert.

I'm seeing the games a lot differently than I did when I played low-limit for the first time. After (1) learing how to beat low-limits and doing it, (2) moving up to middle limits (mostly 20-40) and beating those games for a small amount, and (3) playing low-limits again, it feels sooooo easy to beat these games.

In retrospect, it's obvious that my overal poker skills were vastly improved by playing in the tougher middle limit games. By playing against toughter competition, I was forced to become a better player in order to win. When I returned to the easier competition of low-limit games, I was actually amazed at how easy it was to win.

[Homer]

I would make a deposit of 100 BB's ($400). Note that I am not saying that this should be your total bankroll, just that this is how much I would deposit. I would have a total bankroll of 300 BB's, and if my 100 BB deposit ran low I would reload.

-- Homer

[Robk]

Since you apparently stopped reading my post after that sentence, I'll paste what appears 2
lines later for you right here:

You wont be playing optimally, but I guarantee you'll win. If you want to learn to beat these
games for the max, you have to study hard.

[BBill]

All responses noted and appreciated - and thanks for reiterating the 100 bigbet bankroll - I'll post some hands - and study hard !

[Clarkmeister]

The "search" function. Learn it, love it, live it!

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
If the game is passive and loose... you can play far more hands than this profitably.

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasn't saying that you couldn't. Just that until his postflop skills improve to stick to a slightly tighter approach and gradually add more hands as he gets better.

Well that was my interepration anyway.

[sthief09]

Dynasty (or anyone)

I found this post really interesting. Would you say that it's worth playing at a game where you (anyone) are just break-even for a while, for the sake of improvement? Suppose you were a winning 4-8 player but a break-even 10-20 player. Do you think it would be worth playing 10-20, making no money, for the sake of getting better, or would do you think winning at 4-8 and getting experience that way, while building a bankroll, is a better option?

I didn't phrase the question well, because I know it depends on if the person needs the money, but I'm just curious if you think losing, or breaking even, against good players is more valuable experience than consistently beating a lower game.

[jonnyv]

You said that you are tight. You need to loosen up your starting hand requirements a bit and play more suited connectors and one gappers along with As And Ks. If the game is loose passive with not many raises than get in there and take some flops. Fold if you don't catch a good draw and don't chase like the idiots do.
I aagree with Dynasty. After playing 6-12 to 15-30 these low limit games are easy. You have to learn to adjust to a loose passive game. Your pocket pairs will not hold up against many opponents making your drawing hands a better play. You are probably not respecting raises post flop with your big pairs and call all the way to the river and are beat by two pair a straight a flush or when the board pairs someone will be holding that card. Your raises preflop do not get people out, but you should still raise because you have the best hand.
Tight agressive play will get the money, but you need to loosen up in low limit. Becuase of the size of the pots you can take more flops because when you hit you will get paid off big. Just add more hands to your starting hands and trow them away if they don't hit. Take the pot odds into consideration also. Make notes on all of the players. Learn to put people on hands and start respecting their raises. Never bluff and play straight forward.

[Clarkmeister]

"Would you say that it's worth playing at a game where you (anyone) are just break-even for a while, for the sake of improvement?"

I firmly believe that it is worth it. Don't bang your head and get rolled in a game where you can't handle the stakes. But do take chances and play in tougher games from time to time and spend extra time analyzing the play of both yourself and your opponents during those sessions.

[Tosh]

Absolutely. Its good to stretch yourself.