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#11
09-26-2005, 02:15 PM
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Re: AQ 5/10 6max hand
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a good spot for a blocking bet [/ QUOTE ] i don't want to check here, makes me feel way to vulnerable here, especially if AZK is the villain. he will push his hand more than what i am willing to call. your position puts you in a tight spot [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]. 
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#15
09-26-2005, 02:53 PM
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Re: AQ 5/10 6max hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This seems like a good time to find out where you stand. [/ QUOTE ] lol. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks. You are clearly adding a lot of value to this discussion. How about instead of being snide and self-important, you actually just focus on the poker and not denegrate the people and opinions you disagree with? Oh, and there's not a damned thing wrong with my suggestion. If you disagree, let's hear it. Marlow
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#16
09-26-2005, 02:57 PM
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Re: AQ 5/10 6max hand
Your method will bloat the pot with a marginal hand out of position and you still won't know where you are if the villain is any good. OP's line is nice. I make a blocking bet on the river and fold to a raise.
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#17
09-26-2005, 03:17 PM
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Re: AQ 5/10 6max hand
Greg Nice should really pony up here, but I'd like to answer this.
[ QUOTE ] Your method will bloat the pot with a marginal hand out of position and you still won't know where you are if the villain is any good. [/ QUOTE ] First, we have no idea if villian is any good. But just for a moment, let's assume he is. A "good" player may very well interpret the flop call as weak and bang the turn again with air. I know lots of people on this forum (including me) who do this sort of thing every session. Since a big turn bet communicates that he's willing to play for your stack, then you could be in trouble. Second, how is giving a free card on a draw-heavy board with TPTK a good idea? Including kings, there are no fewer than 18 cards that are scary here. Do I think checking is horrible? No. It's not the line I would usually take, but it makes sense to me. I think calling is quite bad, though. [ QUOTE ] OP's line is nice. I make a blocking bet on the river and fold to a raise. [/ QUOTE ] So you want to wait until the scare card comes to open the betting? This hand is strongest on the flop and does not figure to improve. Villian's hand does figure to improve, and in this case, very well may have. Marlow
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#18
09-26-2005, 03:32 PM
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Re: AQ 5/10 6max hand
You can always cook up scenarios where any line is bad. The question is just to pick the one that has the highest EV. Against most opponents, calling big raises with one pair after showing aggression is probably not +EV. If you have a specific read that against a specific opponent it is, then by all means do so. But when I, and I'm guessing OP as well, check/call flop and lead turn a lot of the time I am not folding to a raise. Because a lot of the time I have a set or top two pair here. So it is not likely that villain thinks this line looks weak and that he can knock us off our hand. So if he is raising here, it is probably for value and not a bluff. So we should fold.
I think leading the flop would be okay, but it looks more bluffy and so will often elicit non-straightforward raises responses from our opponents. And if they have nothing and choose not to bluff, they will often fold. Whereas if we had checked, they would often bet and we would get more value. Our goal with TPTK type hands should be to see showdown cheaply. OP's line does this well, IMO.
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#19
09-26-2005, 04:02 PM
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Re: AQ 5/10 6max hand
I think that everything is fine up to the river and that CR flop is not good vs unknown utg. I think the turn block bet on blank is a good play.
If you check the river and the guy bets like 350 or so, can you call it? some people are saying call pot sized bet, i think thats troublesome, but on the other hand, a 1/2-2/3 pot sized bet looks like a value bet and you basically only beat a bluff since KQ isnt betting that river. do people usually try to bluff the obvious straight card? Its interesting though because if the guy did have KJ, but the flush card came on the river and you checked the river (?) and he makes a pot sized bet you basically cant call without the A of trump.
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#20
09-26-2005, 04:15 PM
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Re: AQ 5/10 6max hand
You aren't raising to find out where you're at. This is what he's LOL'ing at.
If you raise the flop (vs. random opponent at this level) you're doing it to win the pot right away and avoid making tough and potentially -EV decisions on the later, more expensive streets. This is a great idea in theory, but there are many problems. For instance, the preflop raising range of a random opponent in the Party 5/10nl game includes an appreciable % of hands you're way behind on this flop and an even larger % of hands you're ahead of that will call any reasonable check-raise you can make. Unbeknownst to them, their call is correct since they have enough stealing equity ('18 scare cards') in addition to their pot equity/implied odds (are you always check-folding jacks and kings? tens? nines?) to make the call profitable. Summarizing briefly: you will not win the pot a significant % of the time on the flop; when behind you lose more money; when ahead, you extract relatively little additional value from worse hands compared to what you give up by allowing them to either win more off of you by improving or by stealing the pot if an unfriendly card comes off. There's some other stuff, but that is the gist.
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