Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Poker > Omaha High

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-04-2005, 06:20 AM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

There are three players who play at the $100 and $200 level on stars from the same city, know each other, and have played from the same IP address. I have witnessed them squeezing pots and softplaying each other on more than one occasion and forwarded my complain to stars support. Nothing came of it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-04-2005, 07:14 AM
RickyG RickyG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 151
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

If you are pretty sure they are colluding, why dont you post their names. Maybe stars wont do anything about it, but we can save ourselves from playing against them.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-04-2005, 07:32 AM
Big Dave D Big Dave D is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 146
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

No my 2k plo days are over. I was of course referring to Dr Cobben. But he is far from Donk, just an exceptionally dangerous gambler. And makes the game good fun too, in a sick way.

I still think you are overestimating the effect of collusion in PLO...if someone was to say I had to play in a game with colluders, but I could choose it, I would probably chose PLO.

gl

dd
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-04-2005, 03:16 PM
beset7 beset7 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Purgatory (i.e. Law School)
Posts: 403
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

Dr. Cobben seems beyond donkish to me. I'm curious dave. You've talked before about how players who seem to be fish often times are not. At what point and how have you made this determination? I can usually spot tricky LAGs after a while but I'm curious about this.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-04-2005, 04:17 PM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

TILTKason, The Nizz and Tiltejezz.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-04-2005, 06:28 PM
asswasp asswasp is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: irish position
Posts: 12
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

[ QUOTE ]
and have played from the same IP address

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you know this?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-04-2005, 06:51 PM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

Support confirmed it but said they had no indication of any direct collusion.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-05-2005, 06:34 AM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 375
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

Rempel, the thing is regarding the same IP address, that lots of even major cities in both the US and europe have only one major dsl provider. Now regarding actually having the same specific IP address, this is going to happen lots for all the collge players who use their college's server (assuming the firewall doesn't block their access to poker sites or they can get around it). But the only way to demostrate actual collusion is with players on whom you can collect evidence over time making protection bets and raises and where those two players often make sure that one of their hands is not shown down. The more sophisticated kind involving just sharing and using card knowledge as I mentioned above is just about impossible to prove.

Dave, regading "Doc" that one was in the house but not the one I was referring too. I am not going to comment further since I think it is very counterproductive and disrespectful to discuss specific online players and their play, even though they are essentially anonymous. I have criticized this practice in the high limit nl forums even though most there disagree with me.

beset, regarding your question for Dave, regarding tricky lags and whether they might actually be exremely good players, I will try to start a thread on this in the next few days and perhaps Dave will resond there as well. This is actually an important topic in any game, but particularly in big bet.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-05-2005, 09:10 AM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

This is the main body of the email I recieved from Stars support:

"The first thing that I look for in such cases is a relationship between the two players. In this instance, they all live in Sweden . They have also logged in from a common computer or internet connection. I believe these players do know each other.

I then look for frequency of play together. I am looking to see if these players seem to be seeking each other out. Although a high frequency of play is not necessarily an indictment, it can be a harbinger of unethical play. In this case, the players have only played one tournament together,and that was a heads up tournament between "tiltjezz" and "thenizz". "thenizz" and "tiltjezz" have played 799 hands together, out of a combined total of over 16,000 in the last two months. In fact, many players have similar totals, as you have played 492 hands against "thenizz" during the same time period. "thenizz" and "TILTkason" have played 562
hands out of over 9,000, and finally, "TILTkason" and "tiltjezz" have
played 722 out of over 16,000 hands.

With that said, the strongest evidence will be revealed from an in
depth, "hand by hand" analysis of their play together. One of the
advantages of online poker is that there is a full record of every hand, and after the fact, we can look through the hands with all cards face up; as a result, cheaters cannot hide what they are doing.

While investigating for ring game collusion, I look specifically for:

1) Pot building-The players put in small bets to intice others to call, and one bets or raises with a weak hand when his partner is holding a strong hand.

2)Squeeze play(Whipsawing)-Both players exercise unwarranted aggression, in an effort to drive other players out of the pot.

3)Chip dumping-The player with the larger stack purposely loses, or "dumps" to the smaller stack to ensure both players remain in the game. This help indicate that the players might be using a shared bankroll.

4)Best hand play-The players will not play hands that duplicate or
counterfeit one another before the flop, and/or after the flop only the better hand will continue any further. This can only be done sucessfully by sharing hole cards, and can be difficult to spot even for the most experienced professionals. To look for this form of collusion, we often must look for examples that don't fit the criteria. For instance when the better hand folds on the flop, whilst the weaker hand continues. This is usually is a good indicator that the players are not employing a best hand strategy.

After reviewing many hands between these players, particularly focusing on the sessions you were involved in; I found no evidence of the above techniques being used. They play hard against each other and on several occasions, and in a number of perfect pot-building scenarios, the weaker hand was actually folded rather than raising or betting. I saw a number of hands where they played similar or even dominated hands against each other.

In many instances they played aggressively against each other, whether heads up or with others involved.

There were also times that the players seemed to "slow down" when heads up. These situations seemed to coincide with the players both holding mediocre hands. In situations when the players were heads up and held strong hands, or even weak hands, they played aggressivily or folded. This supports the
opinion that these players know each other, as a degree of soft playing is common when "friends" play heads up in a ring game. If this was occurring during a tournament, this would be illegal and I would take action. In a ring game, there is nothing wrong with checking down a pot since other players no longer have an interest in it. We really must focus on whether the players use their relationship as an unfair advantage to the other players, and when looking at the cards face up these instances become very obvious. I honestly saw nothing to indicate that they are involved in
unethical play, and there were many times their play resulted in damage to their collective stack, which would also be inconsistent with a collusive effort.

Given the evidence that is available, I can only conclude that these
players are not working together in the games at this point. However, I have placed a note in each of the players’ accounts so that we may continue to monitor their play in the future."

So yeah, I am not horribly worried about their colluding but they have a tendency to play together on multiple tables and I have noticed situations where it seems as though they are either softplaying each other purposely or are in some sort of communication regarding their holecards.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-05-2005, 09:35 AM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 375
Default Re: Would You Play On This Table?

Well PS has checked very thoroughly their play and I would conclude the same except for 1 thing. And that is that the softest form of collusion is for multiple players to share the same bankroll and play at the same tables even while making no funny plays or sharing card knowledge. So if you were playing on a 9 handed table there against 8 players with a shared bankroll, the level of their play could even be horrible all around and it would still be difficult to win because they would always have an effective freeroll to suckout with weak draws. This is an implicit form of collusion. Even just 2 players like this on a 9 handed table could hurt your earn considerably.

That being said, Sweden is where a lot of online players got started in internet cafes like Erik Sagstrom. So it could actually be harmless and they are all just playing in a place like that and helping each other to analyze situations afterwards like we do here and become better players. But I still wouldn't like it because of the shared bankroll possibility.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.