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#21
11-30-2005, 03:01 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
[ QUOTE ]
Betting 150 pf, then betting 2/3 pot on the flop is playing scared? [/ QUOTE ] its late and i am tired, i guess i read your post wrong, if i did i apologize. i thought you said to raise preflop to 500? i guess not. sorry. 
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#22
11-30-2005, 03:03 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
The only reason I'm starting to disagree with myself is this...
1. Duck is smart and aggressive, limpers she'll raise a wide range. 2. So we don't necessarily give her credit yet. We have JJ-AA in the SB and call to see the action behind us and see a flop. 3. I don't think JJ-AA check here on the flop so I'm cutting off my logic mid thought. But 'if' it did, and duck bets after everyone checks, regardless of the amount how often do we have to give this credit. Wouldn't she be doing this with any two cards because of all of the pf and flop weakness from everyone else? I'm confusing myself. And this now has entirely no purpose except to show how little I know. Blah. Frangelico and Starbucks frappuchino is delicious. That much I do know.
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#23
11-30-2005, 03:04 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
Wow, you scared me.
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#25
11-30-2005, 03:11 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
[ QUOTE ]
The only reason I'm starting to disagree with myself is this... 1. Duck is smart and aggressive, limpers she'll raise a wide range. 2. So we don't necessarily give her credit yet. We have JJ-AA in the SB and call to see the action behind us and see a flop. 3. I don't think JJ-AA here so I'm cutting off my logic mid thought. But 'if' it did, and duck bets after everyone checks, regardless of the amount how often do we have to give this credit. Wouldn't she be doing this with any two cards because of all of the pf and flop weakness? I'm confusing myself. And this now has entirely no purpose except to show how little I know. Blah. Frangelico and Starbucks frappuchino is delicious. That much I do know. [/ QUOTE ] I think we can discount QQ and KK for the most part because of all the limping. Most players who limp JJ do so because they're not looking to play big pots with a hand that always seems to end up second best in big pots, so I don't think we have to worry too much about a c/r all-in being JJ. As for the blinds, if they think duck is stealing on the button, they would still reraise QQ and KK to get it heads up (all the limpers and lack of position seem to dictate that). JJ probably doesn't reriase but the above comments stlil apply. Obviously, it's going out on a limb saying 5 different players are all playing standard and sometimes somebody probably is overplaying JJ or somebody decided to limp QQ and thinks they're trapping duck. I would say that these are the exception cases and calling on the off-chance that they obtain is a typical example of chip-spewing through construction of unlikely scenarios in which one is ahead.
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#26
11-30-2005, 03:12 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
[ QUOTE ]
The only reason I'm starting to disagree with myself is this... 1. Duck is smart and aggressive, limpers she'll raise a wide range. 2. So we don't necessarily give her credit yet. We have JJ-AA in the SB and call to see the action behind us and see a flop. 3. I don't think JJ-AA check here on the flop so I'm cutting off my logic mid thought. But 'if' it did, and duck bets after everyone checks, regardless of the amount how often do we have to give this credit. Wouldn't she be doing this with any two cards because of all of the pf and flop weakness? I'm confusing myself. And this now has entirely no purpose except to show how little I know. Blah. Frangelico and Starbucks frappuchino is delicious. That much I do know. [/ QUOTE ] No way does JJ-AA smooth call. Maaaybe JJ but then I think he's playing for set value. Think of it this way... SB knows that a lot of people limped, and big stack raises. A smooth call here lets a lot of other people call, all of whom would have increasingly better relative position and increasingly better pot odds, and better chance to stack Duck. There is no way SB is gonna slowplay here, with worst absolute and relative position and with a bunch of big stacks still left to act.
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#27
11-30-2005, 03:17 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
This is kind of an unrelated question, and I don't want to thread jack, but this seems like it would be a great place to make a squueze play.
I also think I would personally call with JJ and QQ for set value here, but I'm sensing that this is very wrong. KK and AA I reraise unless villain is abnormally crazy postflop. What incongruent thinking I have.
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#28
11-30-2005, 03:25 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
if you are suggesting a fold to the minraise all in i think that's a bad idea... fwiw my notes on that player said will c/r with top pair. obviously this situation is much different but that was my note.
as for not betting pot, i really do think it makes a huge difference when your stacks are so deep. if i bet 500, i really think a diamond draw can come over the top pretty easily. and suited cards are definitely possibilities as the 3-5th in such a big pot so deep stacked.
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#29
11-30-2005, 03:29 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
Check-raise semi-bluffing with a field of 5? I just don't see how so many people think this is likely.
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#30
11-30-2005, 04:04 AM
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Re: 10/20 AA on the button after everyone and their mother limps in
Why don't you just limp preflop? Cause you're not a scared little bitch, that's why. If this was really deep stacked, you could get away from this hand on a ragged flop, but as it is, you're losing money here if someone with 100 BB flops a set. That's the way poker is.
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