MMMMMM Advocates Violence Against Americans

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
My post is indeed a response to MMMMMM's "explanation" for the banning of jokerswild. To spell it out, MMMMMM's position is that jokerswild was banned because jokerswild "defamed" MMMMMM by stating that MMMMMM advocated violence against Americans.

In fact, MMMMMM does advocate violence against Americans, as I have stated. Truthful statements (and statements of opinion) are not defamatory.

So we shall see whether MMMMMM (1) admits he was wrong and reinstates jokerswild; (2) exercises his power as moderator to ban me, thereby proving that "defamatory" to him means "somthing I don't like"; or (3) comes up with new explanation as to why jokerswild should be banned, which we shall all then evaluate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Question my logic all you want. This is truly impressive compared to anything I have done in the past.

Simply put, how do you justify claiming that MMMMMM supports/advocates/whatever violence against American citizens?

In fact, MMMMMM does advocate violence against Americans, as I have stated.

You wrote. Where is your evidence? In the fact that he banned JW? Do you not see the problem with your assertion?

[bobman0330]

Did you read the post that jokerwild made?? Do you understand what he said?

False and defamatory things in that post:
1. You advocate violence against Americans. As you've pointed out, in a tautological way, this is true about MMMMMM and everyone else. Its only reasonable interpretation however, is not true.
2. The ATF is watching you. False and defamatory, no one has claimed otherwise.
3. You are a racist. False and defamatory, no one has claimed otherwise.
4. You are like Tim McVeigh. See above.
5. 2+2 was stupid to make a right-wing extremist like you a moderator. False, but not defamatory.

[LaggyLou]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you read the post that jokerwild made?? Do you understand what he said?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have read all of the posts currently in that thread. I believe I understand them.

[ QUOTE ]
False and defamatory things in that post:
1. You advocate violence against Americans. As you've pointed out, in a tautological way, this is true about MMMMMM and everyone else. Its only reasonable interpretation however, is not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no. You have pointed out a way in which that statement is true about MMMMMM and everyone else. I have pointed out a way in which it is true about MMMMMM and NOT true about most others: MMMMMM advocates the deportation of citizens of the United States for their speech. This use of force is violent in a way that the use of force to imprison murders and rapists is not.

[ QUOTE ]
2. The ATF is watching you. False and defamatory, no one has claimed otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

MMMMMM did not cite this statement as the cause for jokerswild's banning. What he said instead was:

[ QUOTE ]
He claimed I advocated violence against US citizens, which was clearly NOT suggested by my post. Nor have I ever advocated violence against Americans. Jokerswild made this false claim deliberately and in a defamatory manner. That's pretty clearly malicious by any objective standard I would think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Moreover, I have no idea whether this is true or false. Do you?

[ QUOTE ]
You are a racist. False and defamatory, no one has claimed otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Opinion, not defamatory. Also not the statement MMMMMM relied on.

[ QUOTE ]
4. You are like Tim McVeigh. See above.

[/ QUOTE ]

Opinion. See above.

[ QUOTE ]
5. 2+2 was stupid to make a right-wing extremist like you a moderator. False, but not defamatory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Opinion. See above.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
Truthful statements (and statements of opinion) are not defamatory.

[/ QUOTE ]
Surely a good lawyer such as yourself realizes that there are indeed instances where entirely truthful statements are defamatory.

[Mat Sklansky]

I'd like to say a couple things. My personal political views are quite radical. If I was king, we'd all be walking around as naked hippies. I'm serious. The first time I encountered a post by M, a couple years ago, his sentiment made me ill. The details are irrelevant.

What is relevant, is that I have never seen another poster so consistently take the high ground in terms of having a respectful tone, than M. I've never seen him resort to namecalling or cheap insults.

I don't know of anyone else, willing to take this responsibility, who would be more fair.

As far as Joker is concerned, consider him banned by me.

Mat

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to say a couple things. My personal political views are quite radical. If I was king, we'd all be walking around as naked hippies. I'm serious. The first time I encountered a post by M, a couple years ago, his sentiment made me ill. The details are irrelevant.

What is relevant, is that I have never seen another poster so consistently take the high ground in terms of having a respectful tone, than M. I've never seen him resort to namecalling or cheap insults.

I don't know of anyone else, willing to take this responsibility, who would be more fair.

As far as Joker is concerned, consider him banned by me.

Mat

[/ QUOTE ]

Matt,

Appreciate your sentiments and my politics, such as they are, are probably very close to yours.

Unlike you, I have never read a post by M that has made me ill......maybe I just missed all of his good ones... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

However, with all respect, although taking the high-ground in terms of having a respectful tone is a nice thing, it is not a core part of the issue that this string is exploring.

Willingness to take on the responsibility of a modereator is to be applauded (and I do), but in and by itself, it in no way constitutes 'how fair' an individual is.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
What is relevant, is that I have never seen another poster so consistently take the high ground in terms of having a respectful tone, than M. I've never seen him resort to namecalling or cheap insults.

I don't know of anyone else, willing to take this responsibility, who would be more fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it fair to say that, while we might all agree MMMMMM is extremely polite, quite chummy, and one helluva guy, that when the standards of behavior are 'don't maliciously misrepresent' and 'don't insult' - that even the best of us couldn't moderate fairly when the paradigm is so subjective?

I, for one, am not here to put MMMMMM on trial; I've stated numerous times I think he's quite civil, articulate, and (except in the case of joker) has been more than fair - I just dislike the standards he (and I suppose 2+2, if 2+2 supports such standards) has created.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

There is not many who have asked for his resignation as mod in this thread or in any other threads, Mat. Most of us are just giving input on how to mod. The politics forum is probably the most difficult to mod as tensions sometimes rises high and the border between freedom of speech (which you probably legally could ignore due to the nature of 2+2-website) and unproper targeting at other posters is blurry.

I respect him as poster, but personally feel that he has been a tad biased and just want him to pay attention to this, since if he becomes more biased, in the end all the lefties will go elsewhere and this forum will be practically dead.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to say a couple things. My personal political views are quite radical. If I was king, we'd all be walking around as naked hippies. I'm serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same if I were king, Mat! I actually have a very strong "live and let live" philosophy. The only people I have real problems with are the following: tyrants, terrorists, and busybodies who attempt to control others.

Just thought I'd mention that this once, since you and I have never discussed politics;-)

I should also thank you for your support, Mat...so thanks.


[ QUOTE ]
As far as Joker is concerned, consider him banned by me.

Mat

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I guess that settles that, then;-)

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to say a couple things. My personal political views are quite radical. If I was king, we'd all be walking around as naked hippies. I'm serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as Joker is concerned, consider him banned by me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I guess you must have missed the noun after "radical".

I mean, I have not seen such empty radicalism since Tom Wolfe mau-mau'd the flak catchers.