Is it PC to check this turn?

CallMeIshmael · #1 03-25-2005, 11:34 PM

Neither of my opponents are exceptional in any catetogories... like, 38/5/1.5 types.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

My logic was:

-Check raise stings
-The only cards that I really dont want to see are Qs and Ts.
-I just lost my kicker, so its not like ace-rag is paying me anymore

Too weak?

Anders · #2 03-25-2005, 11:44 PM

I would bet and fold to a raise, I think. You made 3 good points, but at 2/4 on Party it's simply having too much respect for your opponents to expect that you don't have the best hand a majority of the time here.

Sometimes, you're going to run into a J, and sometimes it's going to be a split pot. Even if you split the pot with another A, if you get two calls that's an extra 0.5BB for you.

bungyrocks · #3 03-25-2005, 11:45 PM

bet this turn. you may miss bets from a Q who will pay you off.

einbert · #4 03-25-2005, 11:48 PM

I don't like it. I would have bet. Against two players there is a good chance someone is drawing quite live against you and you have to charge them.

If it were heads up I could see more value to checking to induce a river bluff.

CallMeIshmael · #5 03-25-2005, 11:50 PM

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I would bet and fold to a raise

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The only problem with this is... when I bet, and am checkraised, the pot is laying be about 8-1. If I have 6 clean outs, I need 6.8-1. But, I almost certainly don't have 6 clean outs. What do you think a good estimate is? Its close at about 5 (8.2-1)

CallMeIshmael · #6 03-25-2005, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it. I would have bet. Against two players there is a good chance someone is drawing quite live against you and you have to charge them.

If it were heads up I could see more value to checking to induce a river bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your plan if checkraised?

einbert · #7 03-25-2005, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it. I would have bet. Against two players there is a good chance someone is drawing quite live against you and you have to charge them.

If it were heads up I could see more value to checking to induce a river bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your plan if checkraised?

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The pot is small and I need to be drawing live a huge percentage of the time to make a call profitable, so I don't have a problem folding to it.
I would fold.

CallMeIshmael · #8 03-25-2005, 11:57 PM

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you may miss bets from a Q who will pay you off.

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There's no debating that. The crux of the argument is:

Are the bets missed from someone drawing (with a K or T) or calling down with a Q worth giving up, for fear of being raised by someone holding a jack, that is giving you a free card.

(note: it is plenty possible for me to live to a jack. Hands like J8s are in their range. If there range were only Jack + broadway, then I'm a lot less live when Im checkraised)

CallMeIshmael · #9 03-25-2005, 11:59 PM

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I would fold.

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This was where I would have been confused... how many outs, on average, do you think I have?

(I noted in another post, that hands like J8s, J9s, J7s are in their range)

einbert · #10 03-26-2005, 12:03 AM

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I would fold.

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This was where I would have been confused... how many outs, on average, do you think I have?

(I noted in another post, that hands like J8s, J9s, J7s are in their range)

[/ QUOTE ]

Something a little more than 4, about 5 I guess.

I think it really depends on how much of the time you'll actually be ahead, and unless they are quite tricky I think that's very small.