Done outthunk myself

[Nate tha' Great]

Party 30/60. I have KQo and raise first in from EMP. Suits unimportant.

The player to my immediate left 3-bets. Folded back around to me and I call. My opponent is too loose and can certainly overplay postflop (typical for this game), but he tends to cold call a lot before the flop with marginal hands so I'm inclined to give him credit for at least something pretty reasonable. I've played against him before and he knows that I can be tricky myself.

Flop AA2 rainbow. I check and he checks.

The turn is a K, completing the rainbow. I check and call.

The river is a blank. I check and fold.

Boy, that was strange.

[scooby]

ok, I'll bite. I don't get it. Why are you calling the turn if you're folding the river? This honestly makes no sense to me...either you can fold the flop, essentially, or pay him 120 bucks and be shown trip aces/a boat. I don't understand paying 60 bucks and folding. I've been a very fond follower if your posts and thoughts, but this doesn't make sense. What range of hands do you put your opponent on?

I can see the merit in calling the turn/river, or folding when you get bet into. I don't see the merit behind your play.

-clueless poster...

[mmcd]

Why not lead the turn and fold to a raise?

I think he'd be unlikely to get out of line on this board against an earlyish raiser. He might even call you down w QQ or JJ.

If he calls, I'd employ the same bet-and-and-fold-to-a-raise on the river.

[andyfox]

Lot of guys will take a shot once on the turn after you've checked twice and then back off on the river when you call. Especially if they know you can be tricky, as this guy was aware of in regard to poster. If they fire again, it's a good bet they've got the goods. You've got to know your opponent and know that he knows you.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

my guess is you called the turn with the intention of getting a free showdown, with a read on your opponent that goes something like "He won't bet the turn AND river without the ace." When he bets the river, you know you're toast.

[scooby]

Andy-

Thanks for the reply. Two simple followups-
1) with what range hands would you check that flop?
2) What range of hands would you call a turn checkraise with on that board if the turn were a blank instead of a K? I'd have a toughtime folding KK (possibly even 3betting) but what about QQ? JJ?

thanks

[mmcd]

2) What range of hands would you call a turn checkraise with on that board if the turn were a blank instead of a K? I'd have a toughtime folding KK (possibly even 3betting) but what about QQ? JJ?

I assume your asking about whether a bluff checkraise on a blank turn would work. The answer is no. As long as Nate doesn't have a rocky image, a turn checkraise is getting called down by ANY pocket pair in this game.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Andy-

Thanks for the reply. Two simple followups-
1) with what range hands would you check that flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

The hands that will sometimes check this flop, other than trip or quad aces, are KK-JJ. Since the flop is drawless, those hands figure to be way ahead or way behind (KQ versus JJ is the only likely scenario in which I'm drawing to >3 outs), and might like to induce a bluff from a medium pocket pair or worse. He is also highly unlikely to get a call from a worse hand if he bets one of those holdings. Note that he might be particularly more inclined to check if he thinks that I'll check-raise bluff about the "right amount of the time" with a worse hand.

OTOH, if he has like 88, he'll be much more inclined to bet the flop since he'd like to fold out 99-JJ (QQ-KK probably won't fold, but would also likely have capped preflop).

He probably has Ace-something though. There is an *outside* change of dueces over aces, which isn't much better for me although I am drawing live against it on the turn.

[Ezcheeze]

I think there is a good chance your opponent had KQo (maybe KJs?) also. Theres also a good chance he has an A in his hand, but those are the only hands i think he would play like that. I think he bets the river with KQ hoping you call with a smaller pair. Considering you are calling to split at best unless he 3 bet preflop with KJ or worse (unlikely since he likes to call with marginal holdings) looks like the turn is a fold. This is all assuming your opponent won't check the flop with a pair. I don't think he would.

-Ezcheeze

[scooby]

Nate-

When you called the turn, was your plan to fold if he bet the river and you didn't fill up? That seems like an *interesting* plan. I agree with all your analysis in your reply, but I'm still a bit unsure of why you called the turn bet given your fold on a blank river.

-a bit more informed, but still rather clueless poster