Barry Greenstein on probe betting Live at the Bike

[barryg1]

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Is Barry G. saying he himself never makes probe bets, esp. against weak players? Doubt it. He likely does it very often.
This is why its also usually a good idea to lead out when you hit a set when you are out of position and were not the PFR, especially against a strong player, as the PFR is more likely to raise than fold to your bet.

Right, so like I said, please Barry raise my "probe bet" when i hit my set.

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1. When you play no-limit, you have to read players and interpret their bets. Like everyone else, I make mistakes, but I often am able to deduce whether someone is making a defensive bet on the flop, turn, or river. I don't call with a small pair or fold with nothing -- I raise and put my opponents to the test.

2. I had to learn to make some of these value bets on the river against weak players in tournaments who will pay me off. In higher-stakes games, that kind of dinky bet would be asking for a raise.

3. Of course against a good player you may want to occasionally mix it up and make a dinky bet with a good hand or bet into him with the nuts, when he has the betting lead. But sometimes when he has an overpair he may get away when you reraise because he will put you on a set, whereas he might have put the reraise in and lost all his chips if you had made a straightforward check-raise.

4. In summary, you play each player differently and sometimes you will make a misstep. Players who read poker books will do better because they learn to play a better set of hands and they learn the value of their hands after the flop. This gives them an edge over the people they normally play against. But I think the increased education doesn't hurt me because it tends to make my opponents more predictable.

Barry

[woodguy]

Nice post Barry.

Wouldn't mind seeing you post more here in the MTT forum if you see hands that interest you, as opposed to the WPT forum.

Regards,
Woodguy

[LethalRose]

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3. Of course against a good player you may want to occasionally mix it up and make a dinky bet with a good hand or bet into him with the nuts, when he has the betting lead. But sometimes when he has an overpair he may get away when you reraise because he will put you on a set, whereas he might have put the reraise in and lost all his chips if you had made a straightforward check-raise.

Barry

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I dont know if you play online or not (i assume you do) but I was curious if you mix up your game like this early on in the tournament? I feel like in an online MTT you are moving around too much to make these plays worthwhile. I tend to only make them when it gets down to 2 tables and I know I will be playing my opponents for a long period of time.

[barryg1]

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[ QUOTE ]

3. Of course against a good player you may want to occasionally mix it up and make a dinky bet with a good hand or bet into him with the nuts, when he has the betting lead. But sometimes when he has an overpair he may get away when you reraise because he will put you on a set, whereas he might have put the reraise in and lost all his chips if you had made a straightforward check-raise.

Barry

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I dont know if you play online or not (i assume you do) but I was curious if you mix up your game like this early on in the tournament? I feel like in an online MTT you are moving around too much to make these plays worthwhile. I tend to only make them when it gets down to 2 tables and I know I will be playing my opponents for a long period of time.

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When I talk about mixing it up, I am referring to how I play against a particular player, not how I play against people who have not seen what I have previously done.

Barry

[bruce]

Barry,

I truely enjoyed your commentary last night. I think you
did a terrific job and you're a real natural. Your commentary was both thought provoking and insightful. My
wife, a recreational player at best, commented how articulate and sharp you project yourself. Great job!! We
would love to hear from you on this forum in the future. Thanks.

Bruce

[barryg1]

[ QUOTE ]
Barry,

I truely enjoyed your commentary last night. I think you
did a terrific job and you're a real natural. Your commentary was both thought provoking and insightful. My
wife, a recreational player at best, commented how articulate and sharp you project yourself. Great job!! We
would love to hear from you on this forum in the future. Thanks.

Bruce

[/ QUOTE ]

Bruce,

I thank you, your wife, and many others for all the supportive comments. It was more tiring to do four hours of live poker than I thought. You guys should cut Dave and Bart some slack.

I will try to do at least one more show: a 400-800 limit hold'em game. I had some comments about the betting patterns in limit poker at the 400-800 level and above, that I wasn't able to get to in my short stint a week ago.

Outside of giving some expert commentary for people to hear, I also had an underhanded reason to do a couple of shows. I have occasionally criticized other announcers, so I wanted to put myself in their shoes to see how I would fare.

Barry

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]


1. When you play no-limit, you have to read players and interpret their bets. Like everyone else, I make mistakes, but I often am able to deduce whether someone is making a defensive bet on the flop, turn, or river. I don't call with a small pair or fold with nothing -- I raise and put my opponents to the test.

[/ QUOTE ]
Understood, but this is coming from the perspective of how to react to a defensive/probe/feeler bet, it doesn't really argue against using them in your own arsenal it only argues against using them against extremely talented players.

What I'm wondering is will you not frequently make these type of bets yourself against other players (specifically weak-tight ones) as they are most likely not going to raise you with nothing and will give up frequently if their hand missed a flop? We know they don't work well against you, but do they work well for you?

[barryg1]

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I'm wondering is will you not frequently make these type of bets yourself against other players (specifically weak-tight ones) as they are most likely not going to raise you with nothing and will give up frequently if their hand missed a flop? We know they don't work well against you, but do they work well for you?

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I'm not sure. I have a system of playing no-limit that works with my aggressive style. I check-raise with draws, with one pair where others might have made a probe bet, and I may also check-raise with a set. I get free cards from players who are afraid to bet. I also pick up pots with the worst hand, where I would have gotten called and probably check it out if I had made a probing bet.

One other think that works for me when I have a few players check to me who frequently bet out with middle pair of above, is I steal multiway pots more frequently because I don't think they have enough to chance a call. Players who check-raise more cause me to check behind them.

I only like making bets (probing or defensive) if it is logical that I might have bet the same way with a set.

Barry