Something different - KK

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
Many have said bet the flop here. I don't like it, and here's why. Maybe someone can show me why I'm wrong.

If you're way ahead:
1. Betting the flop will fold air.
2. Betting the flop could fold air with a medium/low heart.
3. Betting the flop could fold medium PPs and lower, maybe even up to JJ without hearts.


[/ QUOTE ]

This ignores the read on the player as LP. I assume such a player will call down with a lower pocket pair.

[Spook]

If the opponent is as passive as suggested, I think I bet the flop and turn and check the river unimproved as the cheapest way to showdown and the most profitable if a heart hits.
Giving up the lead will let good hearts get free cards, and force to pay more when behind.

[Alobar]

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tho im not sure if this is the right opponent to do it on, sounds like you are missing out on bets when he has a heart in his hand and will call down, but is still passive enough that he isnt going to bluff at you or "value bet" worse holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were villain, you wouldn't *value-bet* QQ-55 here? With or without the heart? I would.

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we arent talking about you or I, we are talking about a passive villian. He will definitely call down with these hands tho (heart or no) cuz thats what passives do, so again, I dont think this is the right person to try it on.

[gehrig]

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tho im not sure if this is the right opponent to do it on, sounds like you are missing out on bets when he has a heart in his hand and will call down, but is still passive enough that he isnt going to bluff at you or "value bet" worse holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were villain, you wouldn't *value-bet* QQ-55 here? With or without the heart? I would.

[/ QUOTE ]

he would've called down anyway with those hands

and if he's not "betting or raising enough" hes not betting KsJs on the turn

[kidcolin]

Spicymoose,

Props on all you've said. The same thoughts ran through my mind. PokerStove is very over-utilized when making post-flop decisions.

However, I don't necessarily agree with this line at face value. I'd like to know villian's WTSD numbers first. If he's the type of player who can't let go of premiums regardless of the action, I'm going to bet away. If he's folding a lot of flops, I don't mind checking one bit.

[jba]

here's why I'm not sure I like this lines ---- reverse implied odds (the 50+% of the time that we don't improve)

in other words, it seems like the bets that go in on the flop we are getting the best of it, but when villain starts leading and we're not improving we are getting the worst of it. I want to keep the initiative so that when it gets to the river and we haven't improved the decision to put in a bet or not is ours.

[StellarWind]

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This ignores the read on the player as LP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Postflop read is Normal/Passive.

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This ignores the read on the player as LP. I assume such a player will call down with a lower pocket pair.

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No, it doesn't ignore the read. Also, the read was that he was normal, not passive. Further, how often does a monotone board flop? Even a strong read that the villain is normal/passive may not mean that he plays that way on a monotone board.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[krishanleong]

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Hero's hand may be awesome, but a lot of the hands you mentioned fold the flop if Hero bets.

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hero is still making lots of money on bets that go in on the flop. he's 42% against an ace and everything else is pretty close to drawing dead, and theres lots of hands that will call drawing dead here

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He may be making lots of money on bets that go in the flop, but if villain folds hands that would of put money in the turn, we are giving up a decent amount of EV by betting the flop.

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Which unpaired no-heart draw hands that fold the flop will bet the turn exactly?

Krishan

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we arent talking about you or I, we are talking about a passive villian. He will definitely call down with these hands tho (heart or no) cuz thats what passives do, so again, I dont think this is the right person to try it on.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my other post which doesn't put as much stock in a good read on a monotone board. They are so infrequent & scary looking to poor hands that typically players play at least a little differently than non-threatening boards. I put much less emphasis in the read in this hand.

Perhaps OP can state whether villain was passive enough to liberally call with 77, no heart.