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  #1  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:14 AM
kirahvi kirahvi is offline
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Default Limp-folding

I limp UTG with AJ. A rock (13/3) next to me raises. It's folded to me and I fold. Does this make sense? If you answer yes, should I call with AJ suited?
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:19 AM
thirddan thirddan is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

raising AJ UTG is correct in most online small stakes games...

and once you have limped it is generally bad to fold for one more bet...there is dead money in the pot and you are getting 4.5-1 on your call of the raise...plus it creates a bad/weak image...

if it is 2 back to you then you should obviously fold most of your hands...
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:22 AM
Soh Soh is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

Just never fold in this situation. NEVER, unless you know 99.99% sure that he only raises with AA or something like that.

Soh
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:35 AM
donkeyradish donkeyradish is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

I usually fold AJo UTG at a full table, am I playing too tightly?

Plus, I may even fold AQo UTG. But always raise when I decide to play either.

Will call 1 bet if raised tho'
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  #5  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:48 AM
kirahvi kirahvi is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

[ QUOTE ]
you are getting 4.5-1 on your call of the raise...


[/ QUOTE ]
If I'm on BB with AJ and the same rock raises in EP, folding is the only option. I'm getting 3.5-1 from BB. Are you saying that this is a big difference?

[ QUOTE ]
plus it creates a bad/weak image...


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that image matters in small stakes games. And if players think I'm weak that's fine.
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2005, 10:31 AM
krimson krimson is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

Raise AJ, so that next time the rock throws his AQ away.
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:16 AM
thirddan thirddan is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

yes there is a difference between limping and calling one bet and defending your bb...

also, while normal image plays and image development aren't necessarily important in small stakes games, something like limp/folding is noticed by many people since it seems quite odd and is something most (correctly) don't do...this is something that people will notice and then take shots at you...
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2005, 03:42 PM
pokernicus pokernicus is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

1. I open raise with AJ from any position. I might fold AJ in early position if facing a raise (depends on situation, of course...) -- but with no raise in front, I raise myself.

2. I never enter a pot and fold to a raise when it's only one more bet. I can't think of a situation where you would do this with any hand you considered entering the pot with in the first place (except for maybe if the limp was a mis-click in the first place). I probably fold, though, if it's raised and re-raised.

Here,
- A) you're getting great odds to call here (even if you're dominated).
- B) rock may even be raising with hands that do not dominate you or may even be worse than what you hold (e.g., KQs, ATs, TT, 99, etc.) to buy button, drive out the blinds, etc.
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2005, 03:53 PM
The Dude The Dude is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

Why are you not raising AJo UTG? And unless you've got 1000+ hands on this guy there's no way I'm going to assume that 3 pfr number is precise. Granted, I'll know he's really tight, but I'm not going to assume he's got pocket aces just yet.

Since you just limped pf, call and proceed with caution from there.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:44 PM
cpk cpk is offline
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Default Re: Limp-folding

OK, you probably have learned from this thread that folding for one bet after you have limped is a bad idea. You'll still need to be careful. 3% is 40 hands. This is AA-JJ and AK, roughly. Since you have an A and a J, your opponent is about half as likely to have KK-JJ as AA or AK. This means that if you flop an A, you will win half the time. It's worth hanging around for the flop.

I see a lot of people saying that you should raise AJ in UTG as if it were some kind of gospel, and it just isn't so. It depends very much on the game. If it's soft (5-8 players/flop), definitely raise AJ, because you'll likely get called by worse hands for two bets, which is a huge win for you.

If it's tighter (2-4 players), raising AJ is probably a mistake (IIRC, SSHE recommends that you call, not raise). The reason is that in such games, raises discourage action, but calls encourage it. Limping increases the chance people will play even more than folding!

If you raise, on the other hand, people will call in such a game only with higher quality hands, and you are out of position. You want to invite the crap in order to increase your edge.

There is a problem with this approach in tough games. Some tough players will isolate a limper with a raise on a marginal hand. To adjust for this, you would need to develop an opening strategy that disguised the value of your hand. You usually don't have to worry about this in a small stakes game, but now that apparently 30-60 is small stakes on these forums, who knows?
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