yo cossio wtf?

[aaronbeen]

I wanted to give someone else a chance to comment on the action before posting my opinion. I think the limp is bad. Jeff said it pretty well. (The hand was at his table but we were discussing the plays as they happened so I was aware of the players behind sirio etc.)

There are a lot of reasons and a lot of explantions why to not randomly limp aces in various positions in nlhe with standard stacks. I didn't see any extenuating circumstances here.

Since the topic of these forums sucking has come up I'll try my best to add some real value. Once you limp aces sirio are you planning to fold at any point? If your opponents are so bad you will confidently go broke on any board with aces don't you think they will call an extra 40 or 60 or whatever preflop? Hell in my experience I get more action postflop when I raise. People "put me on ak" and call down with any piece of the flop.

Another question for sirio: if someone did raise were you reraising or calling?

By the way these forums do suck pretty badly compared to both the fixed hold em forums. I rarely play limit hold em and I love reading those. I probably learn more about nl tournament play from those than the posts here. I guess I may have contributed to the general poor quality by making a post directed at another poster. I thought other posters would get a kick out of this unusual (in someone else's words "donkish") play. I guess the beginners can learn not to limp aces.

Oh and I PMed you exitonly.

[sirio11]

In this position I open raise with AA most of the time. Maybe I limp about a 10-15% of the time.

Are you and Jeff saying that you should open raise with AA in this position and with these stacks (the tournament has just started) 100% of the time?

Well, I don't agree with that. If you're in LP, you know the Blinds don't call raises but tend to overplay top pair, I think you have a case.

And I don't understand the "this forum sucks" comments out of the blue.

[aaronbeen]

Well when you phrase it as "100% of the time" it makes it sound more unreasonable than it is. I do *always* raise aces in this situation and I'd venture to say that a lot of us are. I don't think of it as a really close decision. I could be wrong- I haven't done a lot of calculations and I have never even tried limping there.

Do you randomize your play for almost all decisions? In an online tournament with a large field I would hate to give up any expectation at all for an intangible metagame benefit. On the other hand Jeff and I did see your play and it is very likely you will be involved in hands with one of us in another stars tournament. I suppose you are more likely to be recognized and remembered than most of us.

I'm curious about other hands that you randomize. Would you ever limp ako here? Is there a 1% chance you raise 72o? (not entirely serious). Can you give some other examples? How did you decide to limp aces 10-15% of the time as opposed to 5% or 20%?

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you ever limp ako here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a friend ( a very smart, good poker player ) that is all about limping AK early in tournaments.

I don't really know his argument, so maybe it was pointless that i mentioned it, but basically he says you drive out lots of hands that you have dominated, that will donate lots of chips when they hit a bad top pair vs yours. But anyyway.

I dont think limping AA here occasionally is all that bad, like i said i don't do it, and at a standard table it wouldn't be optimal, but as i said earlier these 150's can play absurdly tight preflop, so letting them catch a little piece on the flop doesn't seem bad

I sometimes limp w/ AKs. Early position especially and early in tournaments.

[ActionJeff]

I understand what Sirio is saying. I would almost never limp Aces there because I rarely open limp at all in that spot. If I open limped more frequently, I would mix in a much higher ratio of "randomizaton" limps with AA.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
I do *always* raise aces in this situation and I'd venture to say that a lot of us are. I don't think of it as a really close decision. I could be wrong- I haven't done a lot of calculations and I have never even tried limping there.


[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right, at least guys like Chris Ferguson and the like think you must raise 100% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you randomize your play for almost all decisions?

[/ QUOTE ]

I randomize just 93.54% of the time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously, I just make unorthodox plays from time to time trying to make myself less predictable. But of course they are still plays with +EV; I'm not calling big all ins with T2 just to appear unorthodox.

[ QUOTE ]
Would you ever limp ako here? Is there a 1% chance you raise 72o?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes, I sometimes limp with AK, AQ and give a chance to the blinds to play their A6 or K3.

72o is more like 0.45% of the time. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Not a big fan of the limp. I just can't slowplay/limp with QQ+. Especially that early. The flop and turn needs to be bet harder. The only time I tried to get tricky with AA's live was at the WSOP in the 2kNLHE. Called two miniraises with AA cold on the CO and guy flopped a set. I sucked out on the river and said I will never do that again.