Top and bottom pair, any way i dont lose my stack here?

mickeynygaard · #1 09-01-2005, 10:03 AM

Hi, just finished playing this hand, and it stings [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Just wondering if i overdid it, or if its +EV to play it as aggresively as i did. Note, this is only 200nl, and i often see people not raising preflop with AK, AA, KK etc, so im pretty sure theres alot of strong aces he would be playing like this.

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Hand #93812396 at table: Table TH 156
Started: Thu Sep 01 15:52:05 2005

alex57 is at seat 1 with 56.00
Joe95 is at seat 2 with 143.43
passtscho is at seat 3 with 478.65
auction is at seat 4 with 28.68
devil6666 is at seat 5 with 219.60
daroca is at seat 6 with 338.06
mickey_dk is at seat 7 with 199.15
lsin is at seat 8 with 91.00
Barucc19 is at seat 9 with 73.00
riverfme is at seat 10 with 160.00

mickey_dk posts the large blind 2.00
daroca posts the small blind 1.00

daroca: --, --
mickey_dk: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
lsin: --, --
Barucc19: --, --
riverfme: --, --
alex57: --, --
Joe95: --, --
passtscho: --, --
auction: --, --
devil6666: --, --

Pre-flop:

lsin: Fold
Barucc19: Call 2.00
riverfme: Fold
alex57: Fold
Joe95: Call 2.00
passtscho: Call 2.00
auction: Fold
devil6666: Call 2.00
daroca: Fold
mickey_dk: Check 

Flop (Board: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]):

mickey_dk: Bet 10.00
Barucc19: Fold
Joe95: Raise 20.00
passtscho: Fold
devil6666: Fold
mickey_dk: Raise 54.00
Joe95: Call 54.00

Turn (Board: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]):

mickey_dk: All in 
Joe95: All in

River (Board: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]):

Showdown:

mickey_dk shows: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
Joe95 shows: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Nines)

Mainpot:
Joe95 wins the pot of 290.86 with two pair, Aces and Nines

(3.00 rake were taken for this hand)

mickeynygaard · #2 09-01-2005, 10:21 AM

Just to give you guys idea of the skill ppl have, i reraised some chump before with KK, and when the flop came KQ3 - he pushed all in......with AJ.

Just a general idea of the skill level.

Mickey

djoyce003 · #3 09-01-2005, 10:48 AM

yeah losing your stack here is pretty horrendous.

there are some times where you are happy to get the money in with two pair, but this isn't one of those times. You've bet representing top pair....he's raised you telling you that he can beat top pair. Then you reraise and he calls a very large reraise....when he calls that big reraise you have to suspect he has at least top-two and maybe a set. The only real hand you are beating is a naked flush draw and that doesn't seem all that likely.

to me an example of a good time to get all your money in with two pair is when you call a preflo praise with something like 78 suited, and the flop comes 782. Then you are certainly ahead of an overpair if you get action at this point and stand to be a large favorite. Since your opponent didn't raise here, there is a good chance he has A9 suited, or 99, or 66 or even a whiffed limp reraise with AA.....you are getting too much action with top and bottom two here to be good.

mickeynygaard · #4 09-01-2005, 06:46 PM

Hi, thanks for the reply....i did feel as if i overdid it abit, dont know if i was gettin tired of not catching or whatever it was, i should have smelled it after he called my huge flop raise.....

So, lets say i bet the pot on the flop, he raises me, and i reraise to 54 (as i did).....should i just check the turn to him, and then check/fold? Or if he puts out a small bet, call it down?

Mickey

TreyOfLight · #5 09-01-2005, 07:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, lets say i bet the pot on the flop, he raises me, and i reraise to 54 (as i did).....should i just check the turn to him, and then check/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your flop 3-bet is not folding 78[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or the nut flush draw or any better made hands than yours. It's not getting a call from naked top pair unless he's terrible. I think I'd call his raise, lead fairly strongly at a blank turn, and assume I'm beat if he calls.

gol4pro · #6 09-01-2005, 08:38 PM

You're not gettting away from this without a solid read most of the time given the stack sizes.

However, I don't like the flop 3-bet. I think on that relatively blank turn, you lead for 2/3 of the pot there, and check-call any non 9 or [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] river if you suspect flush draw.

He's gonna take some money off you here, as it's just bound to happen... but you didn't have to stack him off.

#7 09-01-2005, 08:59 PM

I can't even recall how many times I lost my stack playing top and bottom too aggressively. You are going to lose money on the hand, there is no question about that, but I do not really like the all in on the turn. Your not getting called by a hand you beat. After he calls your 3-bet on the flop, you have to assume your behind.

Also, you were kind of vague as to what type of player the villain is. You said the skill level was low, but you did not mention how he plays. What was his table image? Tight, loose...? This information should influence how you play out your hand.