Long term profitability, limit vs. NL, ring vs. tourney

[luckycharms]

Ok, I am a winning NLHE player at the $50 and $100 buy-in NLHE games, and at the $3/6 limit HE games. I beat the crap outta $20+2 SNGs and yet I seem to do very badly in large tournaments. I am fairly good at 7-stud, but haven't done enough reading. I am bad at tournaments partly because I haven't read any tournament books, plus I have very little experience and a small sample pool.

I have been challenged to turn $100 in my PokerStars account into $1,000 in about 2 months. What is the best game to do this?

Additionally, what game should I focus on if I want to be able to make the most money in the long run? This pertains only to online play. Any reccommended books? I consider myself a very good player, but I want to know how to maximize profit. Thanks

[WSOP Bound]

I'm by no means an expert but am also trying to grow a fairly meager bankroll. If you play SNGs well then I would stick to them until you have a more substantial bankroll to work with. I find that for me the risk/reward ratio is much better on SNGs. I put up the SNG buyin and can win up to 5x that without chip swings affecting my bankroll. If you can beat 20+2s reguraly than you should be able to dominate a few 10+1s and give yourself some breathing room.

[luckycharms]

My vote, btw, is for limit ring games. Even though I think I'm a better NL player, I think the upper-tier online players make more playing limit than NL.

Time to read up on limit?

[cowboyzfan]

better to put $1000 in the account and turn it into an extra hundred. Even Sklansky could lose $100 in a few hands of low limit.

[pzhon]

You asked two very different questions.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] What is the best way to turn $100 into $1000 on PokerStars?
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] What will make the most money in the long run?

In the long run, you should not repeatedly cash out down to $100. When you are working from a bankroll that small, you can't safely make more than minimum wage (and that much by playing 3 tables at the same time), and the safest method is penny-ante NLHE or $5 SNGs, perhaps Stud8 SNGs. You might be able to afford a couple of $10 SNGs.

Once you have a decent bankroll, you will want to try to maximize the money you can make per table while playing the maximum number of tables. I think you should forget stud, unless you have a rare talent for multitabling it. I don't think there are enough SNGs above the $200 level. The others are possibilities.

[cowboyzfan]

It might help people a bit more if people explain why they think, for example, that Limit is more profitable. I voted for NL because top NPAs have said that, at least in theory, No Limit gives the skilled player more advantage. And it even has a lower fluctuation. I guess this makes sense, since the no limit player has the added variable of the bet size. More chance to do something smart or have the other guy do something dumb.

Of course there could be other factors, such as game availability, difficulty of becoming highly skilled etc. I would like to hear some other opinions on this.

[Blarg]

I'd put it at no-limit hold'em ring games and secondarily at NL SNG's.

As the previous poster noted, you can have an enormous advantage in no-limit. Limit plays are somewhat mechanical, in that at a certain point you can almost do no wrong by calling. You won't lose your stack over a mistake, just a few more bets at most. You won't gain a whole stack at a time either. Having a skill advantage seems to matter more at no-limit.

Also, all the kids and poker newbies thrilling over the WPT and WSOP for the first time are seeing no-limit games for big money. If they want to duplicate the thrill or take their shot at the big time, these guys feed into the NL SNG's and the NL ring games both, I would guess. That should keep both those types of games profitable, at least at the low levels, for a long time to come.

I put SNG's second because the luck factor seems bigger in tournaments. For long term profitability, I'd have to favor grinding it in ring games.

[LikesToLose]

IMO, limit ring is the top game to make money in. Or at least above NL ring. One reason is game offerings are better usually at higher levels.

The main reason for me is that limit has less to do with reading the opponent. More, but certainly not all, decisions are mathmatically calculated. NL plays depend a lot more on the opponent. Therefore, it is easier to play winning poker on 4+ tables of 15-30 than 4+ tables of 200NL.

[Ray Of Light]

I not sure why no one has touched on this fact, but in my opinion, the best game for long term profitabilty, is whatever game all the fish are playing in. Right now, that game is holdem NL and holdem limit (low levels)... I believe about a decade ago, the game with the fishes in it was Stud.

So if you want long term profits, you need to study all the games, and keep an eye on what games are most fashionable for newer or less experienced players.

Short term however, I would recommend that you enter tournaments. You could aim to hit a top place finish and catch a big score... $100 is more than enough for some of the lower SnG's and/or satallite MTT entry tournaments...

[cowboyzfan]

these are some really strong responses (the last three). Since there are advantages and disadvantages to each game, the key i guess is deciding which ones are most relevant to your individual game. So much for "solving" this issue and having everyone drop either limit or NL [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]