Is this very abnormal for Party? My high pockets are losing!

KSOT · #1 06-26-2005, 08:49 PM

Seems like it's a bit much, even considering the masses of fish I have to wade through. I realize it's still a pretty small sample size, but aren't these hands supposed to be like... some of the only sure winners?

One might think I were playing them especially poorly, but I really don't think that's the case. I bet, raise and fold where appropriate in almost every one of those hands. High pockets have all been reliable big winners for me over tens of thousands of hands on Pokerstars and ultimate Bet, yet it seems like they never hold up unimproved on Party. Is this just an anamoly?

milesdyson · #2 06-26-2005, 08:54 PM

yes, and you already knew that.

1800 hands and you're trying to figure things out about specific hands...

KSOT · #3 06-26-2005, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yes, and you already knew that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely did not know that. Why else would I be asking? Maybe it's typical for those hands to only win half the time when half of the table stays to the river. I wouldn't know, I'm new to the site. That's why I'm asking...

jmgurgeh · #4 06-26-2005, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this just an anamoly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. The idea that these hands "Never hold up on Party" was, for a while, "These hands never hold up on Pacific" for me. It's all in your head. Play 10,000 hands and then check again. You must be aware that not even 2,000 hands isn't enough to conclude anything, right?

KSOT · #5 06-26-2005, 08:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You must be aware that not even 2,000 hands isn't enough to conclude anything, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. I've drawn no conclusion, but I was concerned by it enough to come ask those who've played far more than me.

popeye18 · #6 06-26-2005, 09:08 PM

Its just sample size. After you get a lot of hands they will be your biggest winners. Ive gone through periods where aces and kings had 40% win for like 5000 hands. You might post some of these hands though if you feel you might have played them poorly or are unsure about them.

jmgurgeh · #7 06-26-2005, 09:10 PM

If you're concerned that you might get drawn out on at Party more often than at any other site, that's your main problem. Remember we want all those people to try to draw out on us so we can make more money, so if they happen to get the best of you for a (very) short period of time, don't let it bother you.

bottomset · #8 06-26-2005, 09:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You must be aware that not even 2,000 hands isn't enough to conclude anything, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. I've drawn no conclusion, but I was concerned by it enough to come ask those who've played far more than me.

[/ QUOTE ]

come on dude do you understand variance at all? you've been dealt them 47times .. thats nothing absolutely nothing, it happens ..

KSOT · #9 06-27-2005, 06:30 PM

I figured 47 was enough for a little concern. I guess I was wrong.

Anyway, this is what I'm talking about. All 3 hands from one short session today.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

River: (21 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 21 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 6h 6d (one pair, sixes).
UTG+1 has Th 9d (two pair, tens and nines).
MP2 has 2s 8s (two pair, eights and twos).
MP3 has As Td (one pair, tens).
Hero has Kh Kc (one pair, kings).
SB has 7c Ah (high card, ace).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 21 BB. 

------------------------------------------------

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.5. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 (poster) calls, MP1 (poster) calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, Hero caps, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (26 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Button folds, SB calls, BB caps, Hero calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (21 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

River: (25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 28 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 9h 8h (two pair, nines and sevens).
BB has 9s 7s (full house, sevens full of nines).
Hero has Kc Kd (two pair, kings and sevens).
Outcome: BB wins 28 BB. 

------------------------------------------------

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (16.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 19.25 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Ts Td (two pair, tens and eights).
Hero has Ah Ad (two pair, aces and eights).
CO has Ac 8d (three of a kind, eights).
Outcome: CO wins 19.25 BB. 

How can I ever expect to win with these hands if betting strong doesn't get anyone out? It's maddening!

PygmyHero · #10 06-27-2005, 06:34 PM

If you have pocket aces at a full 10 person table and EVERYONE sees every card you will win 33% of the time. I think that number is actually quite high considering you would expect to win only 10% of the hands if they all played in this manner.

I don't know about the other pockets and I'm sorry I can't give a formula for this. Just something to think about.