brief comment on andys government at work

[brad]

'While agents spread these lies, thugs would be paid to launch staged attacks on religious leaders and make it appear they were ordered to do so by the prime minister and his supporters.'

this is it in a nutshell. false flag operations (gulf of tonkin was a totally fabricated incident, btw, it is now admitted by NSA) are the order of the day. you see these a lot with the israelis because israel is not strong in the region (eg, cannot just invade iraq and take over) , there is a lot of internal dissent (and thus need to control public opinion), etc.

what we're seeing is the psychological maturation of the propaganda process. vietnam was started with a false flag operation (gulf of tonkin), but the propaganda process was almost completely unrealized afterwards.

but now all that is changed. the propaganda infrastructure is in place.

take the iraq 'war'.

how many people know that the iraqi military (and almost certainly saddam himself, but that is not confirmed; the iraqi military is confirmed) was paid off to stand down,thus no resistance . (there was local 'militia' resistance, given that the iraqis are tough culturally and citizens/subjects whatever there could easily buy automatic weapons for personal use , etc.) but the US administration itself admitted the iraqi army generals were all bought off to stand down.

or the blatant doublethink of 'wmd' 'not really ever had been of really any importance', etc., when go back a few months and its the opposite, and how people can simultaneously hold both these beliefs, or even worse through manipulation a good chunk of people think 'wmd' have *already* been found.

anyway, forget about that anyway, enough about these mystical 'wmd' crap. we've got important stuff to discuss ahead. i hear n. korea has nukes and is an imminent threat to the US western coast.

[John Cole]

brad,

Glad to have you back. Who was paid and how much?

[brad]

'iraqi generals' and 'bars of gold'

im being serious. thats what i heard on msnbc like 3 or 4 weeks ago.

of course i read on internet from the usual reliable sources (bbc, etc.) months before that.

but there it was on msnbc like at 7pm or whatever they actually said that the administration? pentagon? whatever had contacted high level iraqis , iraqi generals, (via cellphones at times i think they added) and arranged for them not to fight in exchange for 'gold bars' or something.

also saddam was offered exile if you remember but there was some jockeying on that (bush offered it then withdrew it, whatever)

p.s. look up where tarak aziz (sp) is spending his time now (ie, its not in a torture camp)

[MMMMMM]

Paying and persuading Iraqi commanders not to fight was simply a brilliant strategic move. In no way does it imply anything bad about US tactics nor does it indicate a false flag operation. In fact the US military made it quite clear in the newspapers that it was conducting psy-ops and negotiations prior to the war with the aim of reducing resistance. Actually I think I recall seeing a report or two that some Iraqi comanders who hhad agreed not to fight went back on their word and fought anyway (for whatever reason).

The business in Uzbekistan is bad and the leader is bad but it is my impression that the Islamic extremists there are bad too. So: a bad tough leader fights bad insurgent extremists. What else is new.

[brad]

well perhaps my speaking style is very plastic but iraq war was example of propaganda, not false flag operation.

my point was that ask anybody theyll tell you of iraqi 'war',

but in reality it was more of a walk through of armed citizens/militia some local military units.

that was my point. the fundamental nature of the perception of reality is altered to the point where people think we had a war when we ahead of time negotiated the surrender of the organized armed forces and went in and occupied the country, while the leadership fled country (with a lot of loot of course).

not saying its bad hey its better than war of course but lets be honest if you take over a country with a 100 casualties and no resistance.

parallel to a lot of people thinking wmd were found in iraq. or even as chris alger posted, *deployed* against our troops.

thats my point.